A better L112 ??

[Robh3606]

Agreed. Why I like getting my hands on the stuff and trying it out as well.

The 250ti.. I'm looking forward to that rebuild! I've always wanted to hear (and see) a set. I'm especially curious about the versions with the updated bi-ampable crossover network. Not sure if that was only limited to the Jubilee.

Stock bi-amp on an L250Ti Jubilee??

Rob

[BMWCCA]

Stock bi-amp on an L250Ti Jubilee??

Rob

Not mine.

Mine aren't "L"s or Jubilees. Just 250ti.

[Robh3606]

Not mine.

Mine aren't "L"s or Jubilees. Just 250ti.

Lucky you! Those look to be in mint condition. You have a single pair of terminals if I remember right with jumper bars. Jubilee has 2 pair of input terminals set-up to bi-wire. It's not set up off the shelf to bi-amp like the XPL-200 was.

Unless there is more than one version floating around. Curious has any actually seen a stock bi-amp version?? As far as I know there never was a stock bi-amp L250.

Rob

[DerekTheGreat]

...If I remember right with jumper bars. Jubilee has 2 pair of input terminals set-up to bi-wire. It's not set up off the shelf to bi-amp like the XPL-200 was...

Rob

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I've attached a picture of it for reference. Technically, if you're using two amplifiers, you are bi-amping. But you're right, the 250ti/Jubilee doesn't have the inductor defeat switch the XPL-200 has. With that in mind, is the inductor found in the 250ti/Jubilee as detrimental to the bass as it is with the XPL-200? The bass of the XPL-200 flat out sucked unless bi-amped. It was just there. Bi-amping with an active crossover brought it to life, made it authoritatively tight. Well, as good as that 'lil 12" could do.

[BMWCCA]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I've attached a picture of it for reference. Technically, if you're using two amplifiers, you are bi-amping. But you're right, the 250ti/Jubilee doesn't have the inductor defeat switch the XPL-200 has. With that in mind, is the inductor found in the 250ti/Jubilee as detrimental to the bass as it is with the XPL-200? The bass of the XPL-200 flat out sucked unless bi-amped. It was just there. Bi-amping with an active crossover brought it to life, made it authoritatively tight. Well, as good as that 'lil 12" could do.

As described so simply in the L7 Owner's Manual Supplement, there are many forms of bi-wiring but none of them are true bi-amp. My only experience with bi-amped JBLs is with my 4345 which were built intentionally to delete the bi-amp switch so they must be bi-amped. Which requires an electronic crossover. I'm not familiar with the XPLs to know if they work the same way as the L7 but it seems from your message that they have a switch where for the L7 an internal wiring mod must be made to properly bi-amp them. Not sure what's required to achieve the same advantage on the 250Ti.

[Robh3606]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I've attached a picture of it for reference. Technically, if you're using two amplifiers, you are bi-amping.

That is an often a debated issue. Depends on what side of the fence your on. If you are a purist you need an active crossover. If you look at JBL Pro Monitors that were bi-amp systems when you turned the bi-amp selector switch it takes out the Low and High pass poles on the drivers where appropriate. And of course they offered an appropriate active crossover.

So that being the case you don't get all the advantages bi-wiring.

Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi all,

I’ve enjoyed reading these posts.

I wish l had these bad boys to play with.

As a young man l would drool over these systems in a HiFi shop.

So much to enjoy. So little time.

I have found in retirement l am busier than before…Lol.

I couldn’t find the schematic on the XPL200 to comment on the question of the woofer inductor. Some of these systems have their own quirks.

Floating around are some posts about bi amping.

[BMWCCA]

Hi all,
I couldn’t find the schematic on the XPL200 to comment on the question of the woofer inductor. Some of these systems have their own quirks.

Does this help?
https://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/T...L200a%20ts.pdf

[Robh3606]

Not sure what's required to achieve the same advantage on the 250Ti.

I built a bi-amp version of the L250Ti Jubilee's many years ago. To make the conversion from stock would take some work. The woofer not to hard the lower midrange required component value changes to keep the same voltage drive. Depending on what version of the L250 you were converting you would have to drop it into a crossover simulator and go from there.

Not something many people would want to do. You also need an active crossover you can match or be adjusted to match the voltage drive on the woofer. I used a DX-1 where that is possible.

DIY scratch build fine. I wouldn't do it to a stock system unless I didn't care about resale or set it up so you could easily go back to the stock system. Probably wouldn't do it anyway.

Rob

[BMWCCA]

I built a bi-amp version of the L250Ti Jubilee's many years ago. To make the conversion from stock would take some work. The woofer not to hard the lower midrange required component value changes to keep the same voltage drive. Depending on what version of the L250 you were converting you would have to drop it into a crossover simulator and go from there.

Not something many people would want to do. You also need an active crossover you can match or be adjusted to match the voltage drive on the woofer. I used a DX-1 where that is possible.

DIY scratch build fine. I wouldn't do it to a stock system unless I didn't care about resale or set it up so you could easily go back to the stock system. Probably wouldn't do it anyway.

Rob

With the 250ti I'm supposed to be starting with the better crossover of the series already. The Crown Studio Reference-II was intended for the 250ti from the start. I'm mostly interested in hearing them because of GT's assessment in comparing them to the 4345. If they come even close to those, I'll be impressed. Shouldn't be too hard to pass along if not. The 4345 work just fine bi-amping with Crown PS-200 and PS-400 with Ashly XR1001, but I've heard the 250ti is much more hungry for power.

[Robh3606]

With the 250ti I'm supposed to be starting with the better crossover of the series already. The Crown Studio Reference-II was intended for the 250ti from the start. I'm mostly interested in hearing them because of GT's assessment in comparing them to the 4345. If they come even close to those, I'll be impressed. Shouldn't be too hard to pass along if not. The 4345 work just fine bi-amping with Crown PS-200 and PS-400 with Ashly XR1001, but I've heard the 250ti is much more hungry for power.

Yes there is a GT post about that buried in one of the threads. I ran my Jubilees using 3 PS-200's. Had the bass amps strapped. So very similar power wise. I can see them being power hungry compared to the 4345's because of a significant difference in sensitivity. In any case I think you will like them definitely different but great in their own right.

Have fun I wish I had stock pair to play with!

Rob

Designers comments:

https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...esigner-s-Post

[BMWCCA]

Yes there is a GT post about that buried in one of the threads. I ran my Jubilees using 3 PS-200's. Had the bass amps strapped. So very similar power wise. I can see them being power hungry compared to the 4345's because of a significant difference in sensitivity. In any case I think you will like them definitely different but great in their own right.

Have fun I wish I had stock pair to play with!

Rob

Designers comments:

https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...esigner-s-Post

So no one has to miss it in this short-term-attention-span world we live in today:

Before closing I should comment briefly about the 250 - 4345 comparison. Simply put, I prefer a 250. I like the bass quality of the LE14 woofer. Alway have and always will. The 2245 when used as a dedicated sub is one of the best sounding woofers ever. It has an amazing blend of speed, pitch and punch. So does the 14" but the 18" is better. Unfortunately the 18" dislike for passive networks hurts it more than the 14" is hurt by a passive network. I think the mid and high range on the 250 is smoother and much more open however the 4345 wins by a bunch in terms of effortless dynamic sound. I have made all of the above changes to 250 systems (except for separate amp on UHF) and the improvement is huge. I have not done so on the 4345 but I suspect that that system will benefit from theses changes more than a 250 would. If both systems were tweaked out to about the same level, I suspect it would be very hard to come up with a clear overall winner, but I think I might lean towards the 4345 as having the greater potential.

[Mr. Widget]

So no one has to miss it in this short-term-attention-span world we live in today:

Of course GT wrote that before he went down the road of tweaking and massaging his personal pair of E2s.

As many have said before, every speaker is a whole host of compromises. I would submit to date no single speaker system is close enough to perfect to allow it to win hands down in every shootout.


Widget

[BMWCCA]

Of course GT wrote that before he went down the road of tweaking and massaging his personal pair of E2s.

As many have said before, every speaker is a whole host of compromises. I would submit to date no single speaker system is close enough to perfect to allow it to win hands down in every shootout.

Almost twenty-years goes by very quickly.
Just ask anyone over 50!

[mbottz]

Alright Gentlemen, be kind! In the last 20 years starting out as a novice I only consider myself more seasoned these days. Definitely not an expert. I will continue to push my imagination, and try different things. "I can accept failure. Everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying." ― Michael Jordan. I don’t think any of us that have not tried to improve on their systems with tweaks or different modifications. I have learned a lot from listing to the experts on Lansing Heritage over 20 years since I started this hobby. Each JBL speaker has its own unique personality and if you are looking for a different sound just purchase another set of speakers. But most of all be open to every opinion and listening experience you are blessed with. Similar to BMWCCA I have retired all of 60 days, Along with enjoying my 3 Grandchildren. I have a much awaited project list also. Hope I can get it all done in retirement L100’s, L100t’s, 4301’s, 4311’s, 4312’s, L112’s, L50’s, L16’s, L26,s, L36’s, L150’s, L65’s, L150’s L220’s, L222’s, L212’s, with bass energizer, 4430’s, 4425’s, 18ti’s, 250,ti’s, L300’s & 4343’s. I’m’ sure I may have missed a few. I did come across a set of 120TI’s and am very impressed with the way they sound They are definitely keepers. All the best to the Forum. Keep the legend alive for new Generations!!