your comments about other brands versus jbl

[paragon]

Drivers : Coral, Fostex, Audax, Beyma, RCF, Tannoy.....

[Titanium Dome]

That chart is from Ultimate AV. The red is +15 and the blue is -15 degrees off axis of the tweeter.

Now based on the chart, how does that compare to the Stereophile models where the K2 shows its stuff?

Yet, I know from listening that the worse-looking on paper high end speakers sound more impressive if not better than my pedestrian-built (by comparison) Performance gear.

[Mr. Widget]

Hifi high end sales are built purely on the illusion of better sound...but better than what...a croke of crap!

This is true for some of the gear. But there are companies like your beloved Pass Labs that actually do produce a superior product. They are crazy expensive, but the R&D, build quality, and the beautifully machined and finished cases are expensive to produce. I don't hear you calling Nelson Pass a con man.

Look, for years the audiophile press raved about the Wilson Watt Puppies. I heard them at least ten times as they progressed from version to version... I never liked them. I heard the version 7 two years ago when they first came out and expected to dislike them again... this was my own personal bias. I was blown away by them. I heard them in a different room with different electronics two additional times... I am still blown away by the version 7. I have no idea what makes them different from the previous models, I just LISTEN to this stuff.

I am not here to advocate Wilson's speakers. I really doubt I'll ever own a pair, they aren't my cup of tea and I doubt I could afford them if they were, but the MAXX, MAXX2, Grand SLam, and Watt Puppy 7 are all seriously good speakers. If you prefer an Altec A7 or a 43XX or an L100 that is fine. I have heard dozens of speakers in the Wilson price ranges that suck, I have heard others that I covet. These are only my opinions, but you really should give some of these expensive speakers a serious audition. It can be quite surprising.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Yet, I know from listening that the worse-looking on paper high end speakers sound more impressive if not better than my pedestrain-built (by comparison) Performance gear.

Thank you! I have found that those response graphs in Stereophile and elsewhere while interesting really don't tell the whole story at all.

In my own experiments, the flatter speaker may sound better, but not everytime. There is so much more to this game than a flat frequency response with a beautiful polar plot.


Widget

[edgewound]

After all...just like anything else we spend money on for entertainment...at the end of the day, it's the experience that we're buying... not just the product. For the extremely well-heeled, it's the rush of buying the coveted high-end for the ownership process. For the value-oriented, it's just that....the satisfaction of great sound for less dollars. Marketing and buyer behavior are interesting sciences in their own right... and provides fodder for endless stimulating conversation.

So...I'm going to go back to work and figure out how to market a speaker system that I can sell one a year and become a billionaire....stay tuned.

[Robh3606]

"Thank you! I have found that those response graphs in Stereophile and elsewhere while interesting really don't tell the whole story at all."

Of course they don't. However they do tell you quite a bit and are useful in there own right. Look at these from 100Hz and up. Based only on the graph the choice is obvious. In a blind listening session it would be obvious as well but the opposite of the former.

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

For the value-oriented, it's just that....the satisfaction of great sound for less dollars.

Absolutely... "Hey these don't sound like shit and I got them for ten bucks!!!" That will certainly make some very happy. I don't think however that was the subject of this thread. There are many, many threads here where that is right on the mark. Well OK, maybe they would say "...these are great and I got them for ten bucks..." The doesn't sound like shit is implied.


Widget

[edgewound]

Absolutely... "Hey these don't sound like shit and I got them for ten bucks!!!" That will certainly make some very happy. I don't think however that was the subject of this thread. There are many, many threads here where that is right on the mark. Well OK, maybe they would say "...these are great and I got them for ten bucks..." The doesn't sound like shit is implied.


Widget

Please accept my apologies in joining the discussion and helping to veer it off topic.

[Lancer]

I'm stunned...

I had no idea there were any other brands besides JBL

[rockin'rushmore]

I'm stunned...

I had no idea there were any other brands besides JBL

[Regis]

Anybody ever hear of Wisdom Audio? $18K to $70K. The biggest woofer they have. The biggest woofer they have is a 12"r, but get this, each one has a magnet that's over 40 pounds! And the whole shebang is good down to 15hz.

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/wp_lfr.html


http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products.html


http://www.stereotimes.com/wisdom_audio_show.htm

http://www.soundstage.com/masz02.htm

[Regis]

I'm sorry about the Wisdom Audio price specs. Those are the prices for the 'cheap' ones.


Here are the 'good' ones at $600,000... (456 pounds of magnets PER channel!), complete system weight, 3,800 pounds....

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/specs_infinite_grande.html

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_...te_grande.html

[barkingdog]

For me, it depends on what kind of music I'm listening to. Would I want to listen to classical on JBL's? Maybe not. Would I want to listen to hard rock on KEF's? Probably not.

I have a foot in both camps because I have a pair of JBL 4311B studio monitors and a pair of KEF 104ab's. A friend of mine who used to sell audio equipment in the seventies has a pair of 104ab's and I've had a serious case of "speaker envy" all along. I finally found a pair on EBay about two years ago with the original foam grilles (extremely rare) and stands. I've been in heaven ever since. Now my friend drools when he's here. I'll never tire of listening to the KEF's. But if I want to get my head blasted off with some good old rock and roll, I turn to the JBL's.

My quest for the perfect speaker (for me anyway) has taken me through owning Vandersteen (not to sneeze at either), creating some DIY projects plus a number of other auditions (a friend's JM labs, Magnaplanars and so on). For me, the 104ab is still the standard. For the price I paid, they just don't make 'em like that anymore.

Unfortunately, JBL got the reputation of making "boom and tinkle" boxes for a number of years. You certainly can't accuse KEF of that. On the other hand, not everybody has the power in their amp to drive such an inefficient speaker. Again, tradeoffs. When I had a 15 watt Marantz receiver in university, I would have loved to own a pair of JBL's ....

And given that I'm doing a DIY project involving JBL components that will likely register on siesmometers in Asia .....

I also use professional series JBL's for my band. Sure beats the heck out of the Yorkville Elite's and Peavey's everybody is using locally.

My two bits (25 cents CAD or 21 cents USD).

[edgewound]

I'm sorry about the Wisdom Audio price specs. Those are the prices for the 'cheap' ones.


Here are the 'good' ones at $600,000... (456 pounds of magnets PER channel!), complete system weight, 3,800 pounds....

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/specs_infinite_grande.html

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_...te_grande.html

Wow....$600K and it only goes to 25Khz? POS

Everyone here knows it should be DC to Light.

[barkingdog]

..... $600,000 and only goes to 25kHz?


What I want to know is where dogs are going to get that kind of cash.