L166 Horizon restored - but some questions left

[Fangio]

Zilch wrote:

In another 25 years, you can have the surrounds redone, maybe.

OK, i've found out i can't wait that long. i can't imagine to get used to the 'new look', and was too hard to see my old buddies daily with "disfigured" woofers.. .

So i watched ebay.com a bit closer, and was lucky to find two perfect auctions in just one week. (The vintage JBL section is really a treasure chest, on ebay.de, probably it would have taken a year to find them.) And got two packages today, one of each coast (NJ, CA), one containing a pair of LE5-8 beauties in mint condition, one with a pair of 122A with excellent cones, but w/o the surrounds of cause. And when Mr. Cobbs 'missing links' have arrived, i'll be ready for the 2nd try. Hope for other perfectionists here who understand me.

More coming soon.
F.

[Fangio]

Finally i've had time to finish what i started, and here is the rest of the story.

When the first refoaming job was done, the employee who did the job actually told me one of the woofers cone kept stuck inside the coil sometimes, she had to remove its cap to fix that, and reglue it to the cone. This seemed to be the second time this one was repaired, and it had an ugly wide glue track left since. Another motive: just perfectionism, i'm not happy with jobs done and some shoulds/coulds/woulds left. 3rd reason: its fun.. not reasonable economically sometimes, but a pleasurable way to waste money, with some addictive potential – no need to explain that to LH readers.

The cabinets were regarded as beautifull, i've forwarded the compliments to the restaurator. But about the speakers i wanted to keep control this time, after i had given them away to some1 with just the lowest offer. Evaluating the midrange speakers condition was not easy to me. The original LE5-8s have got a very 'light' color over the years which made the L166s look unique, and – if it aint broke don't fix it?? But i was pointed to the fact here that UV not only fades them, it also lets them rot, sooner or later – so i replaced them with better ones.

After a loooong search over Germany i detected a pro audio company called LiveSound here in my hometown. They don't care for home audio, selling and maintaining PAs and other gear for live events. A specialist there had renewed hundreds of JBL speakers already. No need to explain much, and he glued the surrounds correctly to the back (thanks, Frank). Also a Rick Cobb kit was used (a very nice and helpfull guy). The new woofers cones were definitively in better shape than the original122As, and now they look.. well, lets call it different.

Believe it or not, without A/B comparison though, I would swear the new woofers even sound better now. Just a bit, they have the deeper and a tic more "dry" bass again, that i've always loved. The wonderfull german word 'furztrocken' describes it best.. tested with several of my favorite often listened tracks. Dunno why, maybe the originals have also other parts that got a bit tired somehow. Also i'd like to thank all who made compliments for the first attempt already, there was a way to improve it though, and hope you like the final result too. Thanks for looking.
Fangio


Next project will probably be entering the pro line, from the bottom: i can get these complete set of 4312s without cabinets, shown here:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=7625
if someone sees, knows or better has used cabinets to house them, please let me know, would be great.

[Anthony L100]

Hi Fangio, I am also a great fan of the L166 and I have a fairly original pair that came from Germany (a much better source than the UK). An interesting point you make about the new 122As sounding slightly better. I had a similar experience with mine. One pair have the Aquaplas white coating on the rear of the cones and my other pair have the mass controlling ring to achieve the correct cone mass. Both pairs sound fine in isolation, but when compared A/B the quality of bass is IMO superior on the aquaplas coated drivers. This certainly is not a vast difference but is discernible. Are your 122As the aquaplas type or the mass controlling ring type? Also, the guy who sold them had the surrounds replaced and guess what , yes, they were stuck on the front!! This is something I will address in the future as it isn't easy to remove a surround without peeling a thin layer off the cone surface, which would detract from the looks.

[boputnam]

...it isn't easy to remove a surround without peeling a thin layer off the cone surface...

Yea, that is something you do not want to do - weakens the cone at a very critcal location.

Try some MEK - you can delicately soak the surround area, which will dissolve the glue. MEK dries without leaving stains.

[Steve Gonzales]

Fangio,

It's funny how us JBL fans care so much about the way our speakers look too. My first pair of JBL's were L166's, and I loved them. I took the 122A's to a reputable shop in Portland Oregon, thinking that I would get them back like new. Boy was I wrong!, they came back with a 4" dust cap and enough excess surround glue oozing from around the edge of both the cap and foam to do TEN more re-surround jobs. Although they sounded right, I never got over that ugly work, so I understand exactly what you are feeling. Your L166's are very beautiful now and you've gone the extra mile to get them that way, so here's to you , WELL DONE!!

[Anthony L100]

Thanks for the info Bo, I will bear that in mind. I have wondered about this, logically, I would have thought the outer edge of the cone is less affected by peeling a layer off than any other area of the cone, simply because the foam surround is very soft and is preventing the cone from 'rocking' in the basket. Also, where the surround is glued to the cone this must add any strength lost. Waddya reckon?

[boputnam]

Sure don't know. I just keep the cone edge as thick and stiff as it was before I started to work on it. Someone carefully engineered the surround / edge join quite specifically, and they had plenty more experience than me!

[Fangio]

... you've gone the extra mile to get them that way, so here's to you , WELL DONE!!

Steve, thank you. That was very nice, means a lot to me.

I had a link in my last post already (did a little private documentation again), but then i thought it could be a little overdone, compared to the "big boys" at LH who are dealing with particulary scientific and detailed discussions about crossover points or horn features of the pro gear (which i love to read and learn from). So a simple drivers exchange on home audio speakers, and just for aesthetic issues could be a bit funny, or not worth it.. Now i've seen that pictures of all kind are always appreciated, and though the link isn't the fastest - if you like to see the site, here it is again, makes my intention a bit more understandable.
http://www.iworld.de/homes/fj/l166_phase2/

Anthony, you may see from the pics, that my 122As have the white coating on the back, both pairs (fortunately). I've learned in a long email rallye with R. Cobb too that there are two versions. Not only the one with different name (122A-H), also he forced me to measure the cones diameters, and explained the following:

The standard woofer cone diameter used in the loudspeaker industry is 241.3 millimeters in diameter.

The majority of JBL 12" woofers and passive radiators in the field that were produced over the years have incorporated a larger 247.0 mm diameter cone"

Due to different production runs, these "larger" JBL cones can measure anywhere from 243.0 mm ~ 247.5 mm diameter. Most of the larger type cones measure very near 247.0 mm in diameter)

JBL has also sold speaker systems with 12" woofers and factory replacement re-cone kits with "smaller" diameter cones that measure anywhere between 236.0 mm ~ 241.3 mm diameter.
These "smaller" JBL cones never measure over 241.3 in diameter.

This "smaller" cone has been incorporated into in some of the later 122/128H1 woofers used in other various JBL systems.

Regarding this fact, my woofer pairs are both the bigger ones. And i would say the difference i'm hearing is due to tired parts of the original woofers (the coils perhaps), and not to a different production model. Probably they are really in need of a complete reconing.

Hth, Fangio

Btw, i like your pic in the 'describe your equipment' thread. Great collection.

[Steve Gonzales]

Fangio,

I wish everyone would document their restorations as you have done, it is wonderful to see the process and helpful to others contemplating their own project, thank you again for your presentation, I enjoyed it immensely.