JBL 2225 vs. Altec 515

[scott fitlin]

So, he's comparing an A2 loaded with 4 ea. mutually coupled 104 dB Altec 515 drivers with a single 98 dB 2225H?

That's fair.

Seems to me the difference is 6 dB....

Using the 515-8GHP in the 210,s will have a lot of efficiency in the midband region, but be kind of bass shy on the bottom!

The frequency response of the 2225 and the 515-8GHP will be completely different in the 210,s from each other.

Something like putting E-130,s in place of 2235,s, and yeah ,they are louder and more efficient, but higher up, and your wondering wheres your bottom end.

[jpnoll]

I have a question regarding this "issue":

"Could it be that the A1/2...Ax were "designed" for movie houses /Theaters and back when it was designed, the sound track didnt have that kind of LF response, so the designer of the 515 and VOTT system decided to make the response more midrangy than what we are acustomed to today with the emphasis on the Subwoofer? After all, it seems like what you all are trying to do is make a theater speaker behave like a PA speaker which is not necessarily the same animal...

Just a thought...

[Eaulive]

I have a question regarding this "issue":

"Could it be that the A1/2...Ax were "designed" for movie houses /Theaters and back when it was designed, the sound track didnt have that kind of LF response, so the designer of the 515 and VOTT system decided to make the response more midrangy than what we are acustomed to today with the emphasis on the Subwoofer? After all, it seems like what you all are trying to do is make a theater speaker behave like a PA speaker which is not necessarily the same animal...

Just a thought...

Exactly, they were trying to get the more SPL and definition in the vocal range with the few watts available at the time.

[jpnoll]

For what it's worth here folks, I just want to say that I am impressed with the knowledge base here. I recently built a speaker system with a JBL 2225 in a dedicated Subwoofer enclosure (ported) that was about 6.0 c.f. cab with ports, I built a protective box for the Altec 811 horns and am using a Altec 808-8B hown drivers. I am so impressed with this combination. After looking at the specs for the 2225, the box size is perfect and when the two speakers get together, it is amazing. The imaging is phenomenal, you can actually "see" the entire band sitting right between the speakers. I don remember where I carossed them over though, might have been around 1200 hz, As I recall, there was narrow range where they would live harmoniously (pun intended) and I found a x-over that would accomidate the slow roll off without a "cliff drop" slope. I can submit pics if any interested.
As for the 515's I was going to substitute the 515's for the 2225's but after reading this thread thorough;y, I have decided against it. i.e: Theater response vs. today's music. Altec is incredible, JBL is incredible, I'm like a kid in a candy store...

[vinny]

The 2225 will work, to some degree or another in the Altec 210,s but will not have the midband sensitivity of the Altec 515. Youll get a stronger low end sound from the JBL,s but you will have to work at it to get these drivers to sound right, becuae the 210,s werent really designed for the JBL 2225,s!


What the 515,s loaded in the 210,s can produce with very little power is amazing, and its the midband sensitivity you will be hearing the most, but the 515,s wont get down real low.

Everything is a series of compromises and tradeoffs. On one hand, I think you will get a more open and transparent sound from the 515,s, ( this is that realism everyone talks about ) but not nearly as much bass punch as the JBL, and with very little power, BUT, you are kind of limited to 75 watts, as they cant take a whole ton of power! If you like to play bass heavy material, at high SPL,s you might find the 515,s at their limits.

The JBL 2225,s will take much more power, and will have good bass and mid bass punch, but since you dont have the midband sensitivity of the 515,s vocals and instruments might not sound quite as present, and wont sound as loud because its not as midrangey. OTOH, you might achieve bass definiton with no fear of over excursion, and the JBL is definitely suitable for demanding material!

Your gonna have to listen to both and see for yourself! Dont be surprised if your totally surprised at how much sound the 515,s can produce with their 75 watts of input though!

I have some very high efficiency midbass 15,s from 18sound, kind of similar to some of the older bass shy 15,s from the past, 103db@1w@1m, -3db 48hz, and while they do create a seamless image through the midband and into the mid horn, and take very little to drive them, have an openess, they dont have the bass kick, and LF extension, and I always find myself leaning towards the 421-8LF for its heavier bottom sound, and the 421-8LF is no where near as sensitive in the midband as the 18sound, and YOU CAN hear it, but without the bottom, its not totally satisfying to me! So, even though they have the efficiency, its all in the midband, and doesnt sound quite like I expected it to. Without the strong bottom, it is not as full sounding! And playing todays music, I find myself looking for the bottom.

Im trying some JBL 2226,s and TAD 1603,s in my cabinets with appropriate amps to power them!

In all fairness the Altec woofers sound great, but I kind of think that for what Im doing, and wanting to REALLY punch the system with todays music, Im always at the physical and electrical limits of the gear.

Now, I went and put two of the TAD,s into one of my Altec 817,s, and with proper power, its not bad! Bass definition is great! Punchy and growly. No stress, and music through these have a nice sound, tight, yet makes the drum kits have a nice sound. The tradeoff? Slightly more recessed low mid as compared to the Altec woofers! But the low mid is there, and very good image, snares have a very good image, makes me picture a snare drum in my mind! Basslines are articulate. One things for sure, I can PUNCH them, and they can reproduce whatever I want them too, without any stress, or breakup!

Again, your going to have to listen to both and see for yourself, but for me, I want the full sounding bottom, and through the TAD,s the bass and drums are tight, and do have great definition, and can handle whatever I throw at them.

With the JBL 2226,s in another cabinet, the bass has a tremendous punch, just like JBL is known for, but the 2226 is a bit too reticent in the low mid for me, the 2225 has better low mid then the 2226 IMHO, but the punch from the JBL,s is incredible!. Like the TAD,s, you gonna have to have considerably higher power than you would need for the 515,s and your gonna hit them harder than the 515,s.

I do think that physically, the TAD and JBL just handle the low end of todays music better than their Altec counterparts. Its a difference you can hear. But the midrange wont be the same. But, they do some things the Altecs cant handle, too!

I have to admit, I found that if you work at it, and get things aligned properly, both the JBL and TAD 15,s work much better in Altec basshorns than I thought they would!

Interesting comment. The 515s you were using have they been reconed or stock original untouched? Are they 515 or 515b. What crossovers were you using to get that mid sound and high efficiency? Have you tried comparing JBL 150-4c, D130, or Le15 to your system? I kind of leaning toward Altec 515s from how your describing the sound. What other vintage 16ohm drivers have you experimented and listened too? Jensen 15ll?Altec 803?...thanks

[1audiohack]

Hi vinny;

Sadly, Scott Fitlin left the planet some years back.

Barry.