Snake-oil treatments

[pelly3s]

after a different post went onto the topic of making fun on mapleshade for their products i figured i would start a post about all the worst things i find on the interent to improve sound quality

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/cablelifts.php
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/twe...treatments.php

" NEVER use speaker cables shorter than 8'. Amazingly, 4' sounds much worse than 8'. Contrary to common belief, shorter interconnects (2 m or less) and longer speaker cables sound WAY BETTER than the opposite—based on extensive head-to-head tests"

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/progold.php i use progold and many other cleaners and lubes everyday and i cant hear a difference other than controls not making noise when moved

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/powerstrip.php a $3.99 power strip with a different power cord on it. and i personally wouldnt trust that cord

according to them also if you use certain woods for your shelving then isolate the shelf it gives you better sound, because your amp and other equiment must have some sort of microphonic quality to it.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss..._interview.htm

http://www.dakiom.com/

another one of my favorites is how people say different power cords have different sounds, and also how putting your cd player on isolation pads will help reduce vibration and help the sound open up.

I guess I just cant buy into all the stupid things. I go to a lot of hi-fi forums and get into arguements with people on things like this because they get mad when you tell them that its all in their head. Ive taken enough physics classes to understand that. Another thing that gets me is the people who swear that their little hi-fi speakers sound better than a pair of westlakes or anything like that when 99% the hifi companies buy their frames, mags, cones, and coils from the same overseas suppliers

Ok I am done with my rants. Good day all

[edgewound]

I agree with you Pelly. The laser in the CD player is reading binary code....not picking up an analog magnetic signal. Most of the BS that has to do with audiophile cabling is voodoo at best. And magic disc's, creams lotions???Come on....puhleez... There is however differences in the quality and the AMOUNT of conductor you should use for best quality....and of course shielding for line level runs. Anymore than 2-3 bucks a foot at the high end and your building some cable magnate's Million Dollars Estate for him. According to Physics professors that I've had from Cal-Tech over the years....most of this nonsense means nothing at audio frequencies. Time Align a speaker cable?....yeah, right.

[scott fitlin]

My favorite assoteric cables are these newfangled interconnects with an additional wire that carries a small DC voltage, and has it own wall wart or battery power supply the additional wire is plugged into. When these types of cables are used, they open up and illuminate the soundstage from within!

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/dbs_anaology_field.pdf




But, I gotta give these companies some credit! Why? Because they make products, that even if they dont do what they claim, they look so attractive. You gotta admit, some of these outrageously high priced cables really look great with their fancy connectors and exotic material jackets!

Its not just audio, its a fashion show!

[scott fitlin]

http://www.audioquest.com

I mean, your not just buying cables here. You take the wife out shopping, and you purchase interconnects that match the decor of the room! You get your high performance, she gets something that matches with the drapes! And the company gets alot of your money.

[Zilch]

I wanna be a Cable Magnate.

[Now under evaluation by several forum "Performance Laboratories." ]

I been givin' 'em away free.

'Cause they cost nothin' to make.

That's WRONG, ain't it?

"The large magnetic fields associated with bass energy modulate a cable's electrical properties, thereby modulating/distorting the treble ... similar to the way waves in the ocean make it much harder to swim."

YEAH, Baby. I need some HYPE to sell is what!

[Also available in blue or white.... ]

[Alex Lancaster]

Scott got it right, Forum members Beware!; I see a strong possibility of "Hot Rodding" them: "1000Vwill stretch the electrons, protons and neutrons allowing the signal to go thru at higher than lightspeed, do not touch"

[duaneage]

I saw one ad that touted biasing speaker cables becuase the phone company does it too. Well if you make calls through your speakers you have a need for 36 volts to power the phone.

Just hope nobody calls during the opening to Time on Dark Side of the Moon

[jblnut]

This whole cable phenomenon could be the subject of many books (And probably is). It's certainly a good way to lighten your wallet up at the time of hi-fi purchase, and there seems to be no upper end to the dollars you can spend.

I will say this though - to dismiss them all as "doing nothing"
is probably wrong, in the cable arena at least. These guys are spending a lot trying to out-do each other and I'm sure that they know exactly what subtle changes in impedance and capicitance will do in terms of sound. The kicker comes when you use the word "better" instead of "different". We've all swapped components, speakers, cables, etc around. It's all too easy when you've just laid down a lot of cash to use the "better" word. I've been there myself and have some Audioquest cables to prove it .

The best thing you can ever do is to find some way to test yourself. With me that was a Luxman preamp that had a remote, and a CD player with two analog outs (variable and fixed). I spent a *lot* of hours comparing cables using this setup because I could sit without moving and change the inputs on the preamp, thereby switching between different cables connected to the CD player. Certain cables *do* sound different - that much I can tell you. But better ? That's an entirely different conversation....


jblnut

[LE15-Thumper]

I think the proper term is "Psycho-Acoustics" with the emphasis on "Psycho".

I would love to get these high end audio dealers into a sound room and do some blind testing, asking them which cable sounded better if they first didn't see me hook it up !!! Ok hot-shot, put your ears where your money grubbing hands are.

I saw a machine that "treated" cd's by spinning them at about 4000rpm for a few moments BEFORE you put it into the CD player. "Alignment of the Pits and Lands ?"

How about the Totem "Beak" This takes the cake !!!! I think they are at least $75.00 a set !!!

http://www.totemacoustic.com/english...ccess_beak.htm

If you expect to hear an improvement, you always will. Especially if you have already paid for it.

[scott fitlin]

This whole cable phenomenon could be the subject of many books (And probably is). It's certainly a good way to lighten your wallet up at the time of hi-fi purchase, and there seems to be no upper end to the dollars you can spend.

I will say this though - to dismiss them all as "doing nothing"
is probably wrong, in the cable arena at least. These guys are spending a lot trying to out-do each other and I'm sure that they know exactly what subtle changes in impedance and capicitance will do in terms of sound. The kicker comes when you use the word "better" instead of "different". We've all swapped components, speakers, cables, etc around. It's all too easy when you've just laid down a lot of cash to use the "better" word. I've been there myself and have some Audioquest cables to prove it .

The best thing you can ever do is to find some way to test yourself. With me that was a Luxman preamp that had a remote, and a CD player with two analog outs (variable and fixed). I spent a *lot* of hours comparing cables using this setup because I could sit without moving and change the inputs on the preamp, thereby switching between different cables connected to the CD player. Certain cables *do* sound different - that much I can tell you. But better ? That's an entirely different conversation....


jblnut

Ill agree, some cables do sound different! Worth $1500 for a 3 metre pair? Not to me!

A few times now, ive laid down a few bucks for a cable that got Sam Telligs or someone elses thumbs up, and I do hear differences! Better? Well, they arent still in my system.

I just had to have a set of Kimber Kable silver wire interconnects. Had to have em, cause I knew I was missing out on all the action, I knew I was! They sold for nice money, though, so it wasnt a complete loss.

Silver wire does have higher conductivity, and its measurable! So, I found out, to me, silver wires are quite bright sounding! Especially in a system that has all compression drivers and horn tweeters!

Tonight, because I read in the first post of this thread, that Pro Gold not only cleans and protects your connections, it makes the sound better! So, I have Pro Gold here, I have de-oxit also, I took the can of pro Gold into the room, unplugged a couple of connectors, sprayed them, let it sit a few seconds, wiped em, re connected them, turned system on, few minutes to warm up, played music. Im sure my electrons appreciate not having to traverse a dirty road to their destination, but I cant hear any sonic improvement! Maybe I didnt wait long enough? I wait a while longer, play some more tunes, system sounds good, but it already sounded good! I couldnt hear a difference from just cleaning the connections with Pro Gold! I know if you leave the connector go long enough they can oxidize and cause resistance, and degrade signal, but I clean my connections three times a year, I have always used commercial grade contact cleaner, and cant hear any difference from this to Pro Gold.

When I put new needles on my cartridges, THAT does make a very noticeable improvement!

[LE15-Thumper]

Good cables make a difference, but you will eventually hit that point where you need to shut off the "Common Sense" part of your brain to keep going higher.

Yes, 18 gauge lamp cord to your double 2242 sub is not going to cut it. And that $4.49 twin RCA cable from "Radio-Shark" isn't going to be much good either.

I don't know..... find something you like, make sure it has decent connectors on the ends. Most shops will let you try a set for the weekend.

Ok, I am done on this thread now

[tomt]

20 years and 2 months after this was published,few seem to have

read or remember what this says, or means.

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1095cable/


Do You?

[Zilch]

Conventional theory and actual conductor performance merge: At a diameter of around 0.8mm, the conductor becomes closer to a low-valued ideal resistor at audio frequencies.

That equates to 20 AWG solid wire, oft used by JBL within cabinets (and oft ridiculed for it, as well).

Zilch Wonder Cable (ZWC) uses multiple individually insulated 24 AWG (0.511 mm, near the lower limit of the recommended 0.5 - 1 mm range) with interleaved send/return.

Think "Litz."

[Steve Schell]

Very interesting article and conclusions, Tom. Don't understand it in detail, but it seems to agree with what I've observed. For a long time now I've used thin copper magnet wire for speaker cables, with great results. The thin wire has excellent clarity compared to thicker, more complicated stuff, at least with the high sensitivity drivers I've been working on. My partner and I have observed on two occasions how large cross section audiophile cables have absolutely killed the sound of the system- soggy, slow and muffled compared to the thin wire.

As to the snake oil thread in general, my theory is that hi fi has been a "hands on" primarily male hobby from the beginning. I have a 1928 Wireless World article which describes how to build a moving coil cone driver at home. When "no user serviceable parts inside" amps and small fully assembled speakers became the norm years ago, they left the hobbyist nothing to fiddle with. Pucks, pointy feet, magic clocks, fancy wire and the like stepped in to fill the void. Such a shame, really, as DIY speaker and electronics construction can be SO much more rewarding for the small percentage of audiophiles who try it.

[scott fitlin]

I had a conversation with an engineer about wire. This engineer, who will remain anonymous, is an actual engineer for a manufacturer of audio components. We were talking about cables, and I told him I can in fact here differences between cables, and type of wire and construction! But, I also told him I havent found one I really like yet. Most of the time, regular, generic wire, with neutrik or switchcraft connectors, and good assembly just sound better, and more right to me!

He told me, I hear what he hears! He also told me the public does get alot of what they pay for in these super cables! Super Conductor! Nil rsistance, nil capacitance, nil inductance. Or as close to nil as can be gotten

Then he said to me, the reason many of these cables sound edgy and bright to you is because most gears outputs actually like to see the small bit of resistance present in typical wire, in fact they operate better with it, than without it.

Of course, the story was longer and more technically detailed, but this is the gist of it.