No more big studio loudspeakers anymore?

[Ducatista47]

Welcome to the 4345 club..the nicest thing I have read around these parts for a while.

When all the drivers and diaphragms and fresh as a daisy and they are positioned just right they are quite peachy. A bit of sweet talking to the crossover and careful calibration of the L Pads and you can't pick one driver from the other.

What amps are you using? Might and Power go hand in hand..I'm running Passlabs.

Ian

Thank you, Ian. I like to think the "club" is not just for anyone who has money to spend on speakers, but for those who did their homework and read what the "members" had to say about their pride and joy. And made the necessary sacrifices, of course. I'm afraid my qualifications end there, but I am learning.

My impressions of the individual transducers are based on a close visit to the baffle board and one ear cocked right in. From my couch (which I placed in a sweet spot - is there any other reason to move furniture?), the wonderfully integrated whole presents itself.

Amps are a work in progress. Mike is examining his inventory and I think I will use a big JBL/UREI for the 2245's and tube power for the tops. Right now it is a 60 Watt JoLida 502, and I am taking it easy until they are bi-amped with at least 200 watts for the woofers. By the way, a second UREI will power the 4333's for surround duty. This will be a 5.1 system as well as stereo. I think the 4345's will make awesome fronts. I will probably use one of my control 10's for the center; I have a couple of amps I could do for that. They are forward in the vocal range, I'm told. An all JBL 5.1 for sure.

I hear the PassLabs are sweet. MOS-FET output stages are nice. Me, I like tubes for music. If I could afford Nelson's amps I would rather swing Grommes monoblocs. I have never heard anything better. Best tube bass on the planet, and very, very musical.

Clark, Unfortunately far from Down Under

[boputnam]

...agree the weakness of the system is the upper end.

Do you mean the CD and horn? I think that is what most find "troubling", and I know Subwoof has a very cool mod that he nearly got me into, but I found there there were cabinet bracing obstructions that stalled me. But, that's just me...

I did find, however, that new diaphragms and the newer KT DN370 smoothed the prior harshness that was characteristic. It is muchly improved, of late.

As well, the new 2245's I put in (thanks Tim G!!) about a year-ago, seem to be "finding themselves", daily. The bottom end is even more effortless (if that's possible), and at incredibly low gain. I think it was Giskard that reminded about the 2245: "...give 'em 1 watt, you get 1 watt."

[boputnam]

It's my opinion that "real men" frequently prefer large format speakers just like they prefer 7-liter engines and high-powered handguns.

Oh shit, and I'm a devout lesbian! :dont-know

(sorry I missed this exchange - been gigging... )

[4313B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanKeehn
It's my opinion that "real men" frequently prefer large format speakers just like they prefer 7-liter engines and high-powered handguns.

Oh shit, and I'm a devout lesbian!

(sorry I missed this exchange - been gigging... )
__________________
bo
Too much gear, so little time...



Yeah. That's pretty funny.

[Ducatista47]

Brilliant, syntax, dood. Made me nod with recognition.

Reading the rest of your post, I wonder if you've not got the means to properly RTA the 4345's, I could email pictures of my 31-band graphic. It wouldn't be exact, but shouldn't be far off, by any means. My only hesitation is, my newer variable Q EQ requires less "correction" at fewer frequencies than did the former, lower Q EQ. Anyway, let me know if it would be of interest.

You are so kind, and so perceptive. Bearing in mind that until recently RTA was Regional Transit Authority to me, I would love to study your findings. These sound very well set up now, even though Subwoof's room was a lot bigger than mine (damn, that size thing again). I am sure there is always room for improvement, though, and I am the curious sort.
My email link is on my profile page.
It would always be nice to improve equipment, but I am wary of swaping drivers in my 4345's. I think the entire package - drivers, baffle and crossover design, manufacturing skill and whatever voodoo was used to make these sound so great - is responsible for the unearthly soundstage and I, for one, don't want to f it up. Tweaking, however, would be great.
These speakers are pretty special to my old ears. Nice to hear agreement from other listeners.

Thank you again, Clark

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Do you mean the CD and horn? I think that is what most find "troubling", and I know Subwoof has a very cool mod that he nearly got me into, but I found there there were cabinet bracing obstructions that stalled me. But, that's just me...

I did find, however, that new diaphragms and the newer KT DN370 smoothed the prior harshness that was characteristic. It is muchly improved, of late.

As well, the new 2245's I put in (thanks Tim G!!) about a year-ago, seem to be "finding themselves", daily. The bottom end is even more effortless (if that's possible), and at incredibly low gain. I think it was Giskard that reminded about the 2245: "...give 'em 1 watt, you get 1 watt."

Wow, I can't imagine the 2245's sounding even better. I am going by memory but they were damned impressive the way they were.

Yes, re the horns. I found them to be a little harsh at times and very difficult to dial in.

I am sorry I won't get a chance to hear them again before we leave.

Ken

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ken,

We can frame and mail you a picture to hang on the wall..something to think about and aspire too .

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Surprised not more members have dialed in with their 4435's and 4350's, even Urei's.

Ian

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Ken,

We can frame and mail you a picture to hang on the wall..something to think about and aspire too .

Ian

Haha Ian

It was funny though...

Ken

[gene]

overseas jbl has a couple of big studio speaker they make. they say the market is better over as far as big speakers

[Tom Loizeaux]

...It would always be nice to improve equipment, but I am wary of swaping drivers in my 4345's. I think the entire package - drivers, baffle and crossover design, manufacturing skill and whatever voodoo was used to make these sound so great - is responsible for the unearthly soundstage and I, for one, don't want to f it up. Tweaking, however, would be great.
These speakers are pretty special to my old ears...

That's how I feel about my pair of 4343s!

Tom

[boputnam]

I could (post) pictures of my 31-band graphic. It wouldn't be exact, but shouldn't be far off, by any means.

Apologies for being so tardy. I was travelling, then serially ill, then forgot, and then couldn't find this thread...

Caveats: This Klark Teknik DN370 EQ is a different beast than most other analogue EQ's. Read about it here: http://www.klarkteknik.com/brochures.htm (click on "DN370 brochure")

The filters are proportional Q, meaning Q increases with increasing correction. The Q increases in a greater-than-linear fashion, but I don't think it's exponential. The point is, these corrections (fader positions) are more modest than what is required for other EQ's to produce the approximate same correction. It's all about Q, man.

Also, note the notch filter setting. The notch filter (lower knob rimmed in yellow) is a -18dB (Q=32) cut. There are two notch filters, but I am only using one.

[Harryup]

I think it's sad that producers/master egineers like to flatten all the music for the purpose that is should be sounding good in the car. Why not compress in the carstereo so there is a image of live music left for us with more capable loudspeakers at home. For you who can read and understand Danish this months issue of High Fidelity has an article of how little musical dynamic there is left in a modern CD. Actually less than in the same albums vinyl version. The article is called "Stop the violation of CD's – NOW". So scrap the small toys and produce music for musiclovers and compress if necessary in the playback equipment like iPods etc and not on the records.
And bring back the full size loudspeakers into mixing and mastering.

[boputnam]

Great point. Widget and I once talked about a two-sided CD format - one side producted with dynamics for audiophile listening; the other side produced for "other" listening.