when orifices speak
I sometimes waste my time on other forums. Here's what one guy replied to LH Forum member pelly3s with respect to JBL monitors.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...3&postcount=14
Nice, huh? I complained about his post as an example of a moderator not acting like a moderator but like an opinionated @sshole. I never got a response, probably because he was the moderator who got the complaint.
Out.
This frosted my butt.....probably over reacted but here is my reply. Lets see how long it takes for this super moderator to end my membership with that forum.
Hmmm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
JBL is pro mass market garbage. Whenever I work at a studio that has them, I ask that they be replaced. The PMC/Bryston combo is my speakers of choice, followed by Genelec and M&K. JBL, EV, and altec have all had their day. I have heard the 4355, it doesn't even come close to the PMC/Bryston combination. It also doesn't come close to the Genelecs either. I guess its a matter of what you like in a speaker.
I use Dunlavy SC V when mastering.
I suspect I have a few years more experience in this than you my friend. I come from the days when JBL was not owned by a mass market Corp. Looking at your list of equipment I would be inclined to think your pretty much a rookie and don’t know your butt from a hole in the ground. Of course, you are far too young, arrogant and opinionated for any of this to sink in. Maybe as you and more importantly your ear mature, you can look back on your post with some regret. In any case, I and many others would disagree entirely with your opinion.
Have a nice day.
Sir Terrence the Terrible
maybe the title says it all
Don't let that guy get under your skin. That's his opinion for all its worth. Go up on the PMC site, look around and see if you can find their claim to fame.
Rob
Sometime the dark side emergesOriginally Posted by Robh3606
Don't let that guy get under your skin. That's his opinion for all it worth. Go up on the PMC site look around and see if you can find there claim to fame.
Rob
Let's all just take a deep breath and try and be balanced. There are many opinions as there are speakers and we should respect all of them.
HOWEVER, we all know that:
JBL makes the best pro, montiors and consumer speakers period; and anyone who doesn't agree is just being an ignorant asshole whose experience and hearing abilities is in deep question.
there, that should provide the insight and balanced opinion we all need.
Very well put and a good chuckle. However, I could not resist.
Even in the glory years when 43xx ruled the world, large format monitors were not used very much. Their main purpose in life was to IMPRESS THE CLIENT. Ken's Westlakes were my favorite monitors. I can remember when I started my career, hearing them and being so impressed. Westlake is not just a builder of monitors they are proprietary studio designers. They build the room around the monitors. Their sound just impaled me against the wall...it was so loud you "couldn't even look at it", yet there was no ear fatigue at all!
The only other use for these beasts was in aquiring initial sounds off the floor in bed tracks. For example: the first sound an engineer gets is kick drum because the entire mix is built around it, followed by the rest of the kit and bass guitar. When the two instruments are seated right, the entire mix is placed around them. The purpose of the large format monitor is to hear every nuance in that kick drum which could be missed in a small monitor. Also it is very, very hard to derive your tonality and sculpt your sound unless you have the SPL level to deal with it. Once your 'beds' are laid, (the easiest and most fun part of the mix) many engineers prefer to use small format monitors on the console for MANY reasons. Ear fatigue, a more appropriate image size, not to mention a more realistic sound. A common rookie mistake is to blast a large format monitor and be in sonic heaven. You know what that sounds like when you play it back on a normal home system...CRAP....tiny....out of balance....improper tonality....I could go on forever.
Large format monitors are generally not used for final downmix, and mastering. Back then the monitor of choice (for all of the above reasons) was the good old 4310. If you owned a pair of L100's back then, you would find many albums that had perfect phasing, imaging, texture and balance. That is a direct result of the product being mixed on a 4310!
Secondly, the world wide market for large monitors is estimated at 2000 units. Even if you produce a successful product, that's not much of a market. Small format monitors and small studios are in. There is an advantage to using small near fields. Even in world class installations, which all have in wall monsters, the small self powered unit produces excellent imaging and lack of exterior interference. And yes I think Genelecs are superb in this regard.
The third reason large format monitors are not popular is the shear decline of medium and large installations. Today everyone and his mother has a pro tools in their basement....which has led to a lot of crap, and a lot of monitors for sale. BTW, being a casualty of the times...anyone want to buy a pair of Tannoys?
Articulate and well put without being abrasive. We to used small monitors for the final mix because it gave a realistic example of what the final pressing would sound like on FM radio and lesser sound systems.
I would only take exception to one thing. Imaging, having owned many esoteric speakers in my days (large and small) not just JBL’s, these HR1’s have the most incredible imaging I have ever heard. Not all may agree, but that’s my opinion.
Kudo’s on the kick drum and bass sound. Genelec’s have more of a synthetic slap than a true skin to skin punch. Compression can affect this to a great degree as well.
Great reply
Thanks
This, and this alone, is, in my opinion, the most largely responsible single thing that has led to the decline of many things music and audio related!
This has affected studios, engineers, recording artists, recording label employees, audio companies and what they manufacture, oir dont manufacture becuae everything is DIY comp/digi tech lo fi, etc!
scottyj
I once owned a pair of Quad ESL's that had pretty awsome imaging.
Ken
Don't feel badly, I would have done the same thing
my large Martin Logans, when setup properly, image almost laser like. Opps, can I say that on this forum, forgive me JBL GODS
This is precisely the reason why a large monitor is used during initial bed tracks. If you used a small 2way Genelec to aquire your kick drum sound, it would flap like a piece of paper in the wind. The shear SPL level of a large format monitor allows you to hear every nuance and sculpt your sound. When the image is turned back down to a normal level, it is all there even at low SPL. If you then proceeded to play it back on the Genelecs, you could then hear the sound that you intended to design. Using the above example in reverse, it would be near impossible to aquire that sound. This is the very thing that 'audiophiles' fail to understand.
Once again, I agree with most of what your saying and understand it but disagree on the Genelecs.
"If you used a small 2way Genelec to aquire your kick drum sound, it would flap like a piece of paper in the wind."
I was in a studio several years ago that had just spent gobs of money on a pair of large format Genelec 3-ways SA30's or something. Even at High SPL's the kit had very little natuaral sound to it. They lasted about 3 months before being removed and sold for a huge loss. I spent a few hours over a couple of weeks listening to them and was very dissapointed after all the hype. I have heard 3 different models of Genelecs and have never been impressed enough to pay anywhere even close to the asking price. I will admit at higher frquencies they sounded pretty good. On the other hand, have you ever heard a pair of BBSM 12's or 8's at a 1/8 the price. No contest at high or low spl's.
I have enjoyed your posts and the friendly sparring
have a good one.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote