Performance Series 5.1/1990s L1.L5.L7/L100A
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I was all for keeping that ^^^ here: JBLAddict's three questions and three goals. It seemed simple enough and on thread at the time. He asked for a reference, I gave it, and then...
JBLAddict, those Toole links were meant to be on thread, and they are. There's a lot in them that addresses your three questions and three goals.
I'll be taking a break now.
Out.
Not before a sincere vote of thanks for pretty much single-handedly elevating the '90s L-series JBLs to a level where they are taken seriously as a credit to their designers (thanks Chris Hagen) and lifting them out of their former Big-Box frame of reference.
T-dome's detailed appraisal piqued my curiosity enough to detour and pickup a pair of L5s which led me to a pair of L7s. That small-change adjustment to my JBL frame of reference is really responsible for my ultimate search and purchase of something I thought might even be better (and was) but I'd never have rekindled the interest in that part of my hobby without T-dome's enthusiastic support for the neglected L7 and L5.
Now go enjoy the Spring weather in that Maserati! Does yours sport the optional belt-drive CD player?
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
thanks for the articles, I just finished reading the last of them. take a breath before moving too quickly was clearly the right advice
I say this because Floyd's articles cover so much ground, I'm fairly confused, as he doesn't (or intentionally avoids) make general recommendations that I can directly apply NOW. While I get that its a mix of the speaker, room, position, gear, treatment, it still seems to boil down to needing measurement capability to make any decisions.
Where I put my L7s, where I sit, and what I put on my walls, floors and ceilings, appears to require not only measurement but knowing what to do as a result. This is frustrating, as I sincerely want to make the most out of the system I have, but feel that the tools for doing so require expertise that is not realistically attainable. I'll pull em to 3' from the corners for critical 2ch listening because JBL said so, but for the fairly non-aesthetic panels adorning my walls I'm scratching my head not knowing if they're unecessary, or if actually adding treatment is worth pursuing??
your comment about considering the design of the L7 as a stereo vehicle makes sense, but I'm much less concerned with how my L series 5.1 is meeting "social" goals as Toole puts it, than I am blissful 2Ch experience for one listener (a.k.a. me). with this goal in mind, how would you recommend I go about optimizing the L7 around position and treatment only?
Performance Series 5.1/1990s L1.L5.L7/L100A
http://adsoftheworld.com/media/tv/ac...cuses_tube_amp
it is a breath of fresh air that you understand that concept so quickly! on some of the studio design forums im on, it's amazing how many want such a quick (and one-size-fits-all) answer, without so much as taking measurements to make clear what the issues in the room are that they even need to treat!
don't let the task daunt you. in small acoustical spaces, there are general guidelines to follow. but measuring first is important so you can see the direct (measured) improvement that treatments have made. we dont blindly place treatments, and we always take measurements to verify.
guidelines:
(1) as many and as deep of porous bass traps as you can in the corners (remember, 12 in a standard/rectangular room!).
you can make corner chunks like:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-finished.html
and
http://www.radford.edu/~shelm/acoustics/bass-traps.html
or you can stack the OC703 batts (usually 24"x48" in size), and straddle in the corner. the deeper the insulation (or the more spaced away from the wall) - the more effective the trap is. we're converting kinetic energy into heat --- so we want the insulation at areas of high particle velocity!
(2) broadband absorption at areas of early specular reflections. this eliminates comb-filtering from a reflected signal constructively and destructively combining with the direct sound at your ear (causing peaks and nulls).
you do *not* want a wooden frame around the insulation for these panels, as the edges will diffract. i build my frame behind the insulation (leaving the sides of the insulation exposed, a 50% increase in exposed surface area on a 4" panel!!) - which also spaces the insulation away from the wall 1.5", making the absorber more effective.
you are more than free to investigate any modern control/mastering room.Where I put my L7s, where I sit, and what I put on my walls, floors and ceilings, appears to require not only measurement but knowing what to do as a result. This is frustrating, as I sincerely want to make the most out of the system I have, but feel that the tools for doing so require expertise that is not realistically attainable. I'll pull em to 3' from the corners for critical 2ch listening because JBL said so, but for the fairly non-aesthetic panels adorning my walls I'm scratching my head not knowing if they're unecessary, or if actually adding treatment is worth pursuing??
your comment about considering the design of the L7 as a stereo vehicle makes sense, but I'm much less concerned with how my L series 5.1 is meeting "social" goals as Toole puts it, than I am blissful 2Ch experience for one listener (a.k.a. me). with this goal in mind, how would you recommend I go about optimizing the L7 around position and treatment only?
LEDE/RFZ dominates this. absorption early reflections allows you to hear the direct signal, NOT your room. if i am listening to music recorded in a wonderful concert hall, why would i want to impose the sound of my tiny room on top?
as for surround sound (5.1 music), blackbird studio c ambechoic is the new the standard.. the evolution of the reflection free zone -
makes my PRD look puny in comparision
if you're interested in more, this is essentially the bible (schroeder diffusers, polys, helmholtz, limp membrane, bass traps, etc - you name it):
RPG (D'antonio) are the authorative figure on diffusers.
http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Absor...4377707&sr=1-2
a decent small room acoustical write-up (light-weight to read)
http://www.gcmstudio.com/acoustics/acoustics.html
What a thread.
Room treatments are nice, but for the average Joe Bag-o-Donuts like me, that won't be happening.
I just picked up a set of L3 advertised on Minneapolis' Craigslist. I paid $120.00USD. The cabinets are solid, the drivers are good. Cosmetics need help on the front. I'll be sanding and repainting with a rattle can (and sanding, and repainting, and sanding, and repainting) the fronts to bring them up to accepable to me.
The L3 will serve rear channel duty in a 5.0 system in my living room.
Paying debt to Karma...
Nice score, the L3's are really good. They will blend in good as surrounds, what are you using for fronts?
XPL 200's w DX1, XPL 160's, XPL 140's, L7's, L5's, L3's, L1's Homemade L Center, 4412's, 4406, L60T's, L20T's
L7 for Right and Left, and an old L86 as a center.
I have the components to build a center based on the L7 without the LE120H (i.e. I have spare 708g-1, 704g-1 and 035TIA with a pair of old L7 crossovers. I just need to get around to building a cabinet (probably will never happen).
Paying debt to Karma...
I did that and it turned out to be a great match. Movies are fun with 5.1 but I enjoy 5.1 for music most. It just takes some time to get the right balance. The L series just has a good all round timbre.
XPL 200's w DX1, XPL 160's, XPL 140's, L7's, L5's, L3's, L1's Homemade L Center, 4412's, 4406, L60T's, L20T's
have to give that a big +1
though from a time before HT, I think they do a super job on 5.1 music once powered and balanced correctly. as killer as TD's Performance setup sounds, when listening to my L setup within hours of hearing the PS, I'm really impressed how well they hold their own...and think it's the timbre that you point out as the strength
just received Gaucho DVD-A in the mail today, and have it running through the OPPO 83SE analog outs, and just, wow.......Genesis--We Can't Dance DTS 24/96 last week, another great MCH disc
Performance Series 5.1/1990s L1.L5.L7/L100A
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I had everything but L3's, so I can't make this statement very strong... but in case you haven't noticed there are two different finishes on the L series speakers.
The thin smooth black which was on the front baffles of my L5/L7's can be treated like auto paint, it polishes and buffs out nicely, and at worst case could be duplicated/refinished well enough with good rattle can work.
The grained surfaces have an almost wax like soft finish on them, and sanding on that with the goal of refinishing would be a nightmare. I'm not sure anyone has detailed an attempt at restoration of that finish yet. It may be better to just fill in the scratches in those areas with a repair crayon.
JBL doesn't want to sell you Performance Series speakers.
I have thought about getting rid of the wear and tear on my set but it seems like quite a challenge. When I painted my center channel I used the rustoleum all surface satin black which is a very close match. I would like to see someone take on the challenge of refinishing a pair.
XPL 200's w DX1, XPL 160's, XPL 140's, L7's, L5's, L3's, L1's Homemade L Center, 4412's, 4406, L60T's, L20T's
Thou me and Heather have disagreements with each other most times I have to say this thread is being steered off its original objective which is about JBL L Series (1990s).
Its nice to see JBL in room with skyline on the front wall but several pages about 101 acoustics come on.
I like peeking at picture show of other members JBL speaker set ups.
Thing I noticed with model placed upside down is its kinder like what cinema surround speaker would be like JBL 83 series with sloping front baffle.
Maybe a whole cluster of these in room on sidewalls and rear wall upside down so the sloped edged baffle points downwards over the and around the setting area. Bet it puts out a reasonable bass/mid for smooth highs.
Good deal on L7'S
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/2409073757.html
XPL 200's w DX1, XPL 160's, XPL 140's, L7's, L5's, L3's, L1's Homemade L Center, 4412's, 4406, L60T's, L20T's
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