JBL L Series (1990s)

[gferrell]

You must be a young man if you can hear below 30Hz. I can only feel it now.

[Sonance'84]

You must be a young man if you can hear below 30Hz. I can only feel it now.

Not sure I can hear much below 30Hz, but if the speaker can't produce it cleanly in the first place then you won't be able to feel it either.

Either way, I have heard speakers that can produce bass in the 20Hz range at +/- 2-3db and they sound amazing. You get the full extension of bass that you can hear, plus the thunderous feeling of the bass you can't hear. Definitely the sound I'm looking to reproduce.

We are paying for electronics that produce 20Hz-20kHz (sometimes higher)...so why not use a speaker that can produce as much of that spectrum as possible? That is my opinion for someones MAIN pair of speakers.

I'm not trying to take this off topic at all, but was just stating my thoughts on the L5's and L7's. Great speakers for what they are!

[JBLAddict]

Not sure I can hear much below 30Hz, but if the speaker can't produce it cleanly in the first place then you won't be able to feel it either.

Either way, I have heard speakers that can produce bass in the 20Hz range at +/- 2-3db and they sound amazing. You get the full extension of bass that you can hear, plus the thunderous feeling of the bass you can't hear. Definitely the sound I'm looking to reproduce.

I hear ya man, I won't stop looking until I find a full range set that goes low enough to make me soil myself.............

[Titanium Dome]

I hear ya man, I won't stop looking until I find a full range set that goes low enough to make me soil myself.............

LOL! C'mon over. I now have four 18" subs in the Two Jims Theatre, and here you go... (somehow combine the two, and you get the inference)

Seriously, though, by every exam I've taken it's not likely that I'll hear anything below 30 Hz, and what I'll feel is really higher in frequency than that. Nonetheless, I know that my pants (if I'm wearing them—don't ask!!!) will flap even if I cannot feel or hear the sub 30 Hz output. If I feel my pant legs flapping, I know I'm there, right?

-------------------------------------------

Sonance84: The Hafler amps I'm using with the PT250s grumpy and I cobbled together spec out at 0.2 Hz to 100 kHz +/- 3 dB. I'm pretty sure I won't find any normal, affordable speakers that can tackle that FR, yet I have not given up on real world speakers whose FR is more modest and realistic than that.

I have two pairs of 240Tis sitting unused in my garage, and a pair of L7s and a pair of L5s in systems that are used regularly. They are simply better speakers in ways that matter to me, unless getting below 30 Hz is the more important quest. For you, this seems to be an important characteristic. For me it is not.

I'm often self-classified and characterized as a bass whore, but you may have bettered me in this regard.

[Titanium Dome]

Not sure I can hear much below 30Hz, but if the speaker can't produce it cleanly in the first place then you won't be able to feel it either.

Either way, I have heard speakers that can produce bass in the 20Hz range at +/- 2-3db and they sound amazing. You get the full extension of bass that you can hear, plus the thunderous feeling of the bass you can't hear. Definitely the sound I'm looking to reproduce.

We are paying for electronics that produce 20Hz-20kHz (sometimes higher)...so why not use a speaker that can produce as much of that spectrum as possible? That is my opinion for someones MAIN pair of speakers.

By this criterium, those K2 S9900 speakers I have in my stereo system wouldn't make the cut. To tell the truth, I've added a pair of S2S subs to handle any info below 40 Hz, so maybe I'm admitting the K2s can't do everything.

Weirdly, I've never entertained the idea of using subs with the L7s. Perhaps I should, except I haven't felt the need.

Which speakers have you heard that produce bass in the 20 Hz range (+/- 3 dB) that give you the amazing sound? I'm pretty sure they cost more than the current $400-550/pair that L7s are going for these days, but probably a lot less than the $44,400 of the K2s. If I could get the purity of the K2s all the way down to 20 Hz (+/-) at a lesser price, I'd be eager to know about it.

Any insight you have would be appreciated.

[Sonance'84]

Sonance84: The Hafler amps I'm using with the PT250s grumpy and I cobbled together spec out at 0.2 Hz to 100 kHz +/- 3 dB. I'm pretty sure I won't find any normal, affordable speakers that can tackle that FR, yet I have not given up on real world speakers whose FR is more modest and realistic than that.

I have two pairs of 240Tis sitting unused in my garage, and a pair of L7s and a pair of L5s in systems that are used regularly. They are simply better speakers in ways that matter to me, unless getting below 30 Hz is the more important quest. For you, this seems to be an important characteristic. For me it is not.

I'm often self-classified and characterized as a bass whore, but you may have bettered me in this regard.

I guess I meant that most people are using gear that produces the audible human hearing (when in perfect working order), while some are using (as you are) extremely high bandwidth gear. Trying to find speaker that can do 20Hz-20kHz is what I'm saying the goal is for most people looking for 'reference' level sound reproduction. But, once you go below 40Hz, the speakers start getting really expensive. So, for me, trying to find a speaker that gets as close to hitting 20Hz-20kHz +/- 3db is my goal for sound reproduction...the closer the better. My budget will decide the rest.

The 240Ti's I've heard have been refoamed (woofs and tweets) by Upland and recapped completely with Sonicaps. The L7's and L5's I judged them against were stock. My quest for sound is neutral and accurate reproduction...throughout the entire audible range. I look for clarity and openness just as much as I do bass. I hate boomey, uncontrolled bass though.

By this criterium, those K2 S9900 speakers I have in my stereo system wouldn't make the cut. To tell the truth, I've added a pair of S2S subs to handle any info below 40 Hz, so maybe I'm admitting the K2s can't do everything.

Weirdly, I've never entertained the idea of using subs with the L7s. Perhaps I should, except I haven't felt the need.

Which speakers have you heard that produce bass in the 20 Hz range (+/- 3 dB) that give you the amazing sound? I'm pretty sure they cost more than the current $400-550/pair that L7s are going for these days, but probably a lot less than the $44,400 of the K2s. If I could get the purity of the K2s all the way down to 20 Hz (+/-) at a lesser price, I'd be eager to know about it.

Any insight you have would be appreciated.

Let me first state that I'm a very budget oriented guy and buy only used gear. My MAIN system has less than $5K into it.

I've never used subs with any of my speakers. My favorite speakers (up until a few months ago) were my Klipsch Forte's that have completely new crossovers and a new Ti tweeter diaphragm. They spec at 32Hz-20kHz (+/- 3db) and I used them with a 34wpc tube amp. Very clean and plenty of bass. They beat out every other speaker that came along in my price range, including the L5's (until one day...).

Now, I've only heard 2 types of speakers that can produce sound in the 20Hz range, and by that I mean 20-29Hz +/- 3db...which are the "Usher BE-20 Diamond DMD" (22Hz-40kHz) and "Acarian Alon IV" (29-24kHz)...I own the Alon IVs (which can do 20Hz-24kHz, but only at +/- 10db). The Ushers sounded better to me than the B&W 800D, yet they cost half the price. My Alons sound as good to me as the B&W 800Ds and pretty darn close to the Ushers. This is telling me that price isn't everything...let your ears do the deciding.

The Alon IVs quickly became my new favorite speaker, especially for the price I paid. They bested my Fortes on every level (even with the 34wpc tube amp). But, I did end up getting a nice 200wpc amp that is very stable and sounds amazing, to power them. The Alon IVs were $900, but I got them on a very good deal...usually they go upwards of $1200. They were $5K new in 1993 with the Rosewood option, which I have.

I'm not saying that my speakers sound better than the K2s by any means (never heard 'em), but they do get me closer to the sound I'm looking for. Hope this helps you see where I'm coming from. There is still plenty for me out there to explore yet.

[pathfindermwd]

The L890 goes down to 28hz.

[JBLAddict]

Weirdly, I've never entertained the idea of using subs with the L7s. Perhaps I should, except I haven't felt the need.

I've crossed them at 40Hz to a single L8400p (22Hz +/-3dB) and full range is markedly better. Yes only one sub, but think it was more the fact that for anything but 1812 Overture and organ pipe music which I don't own, the full range L7 more than covers almost any range of typical "music" as they are designed to handle, and does it better than using subs

LOL! C'mon over. I now have four 18" subs in the Two Jims Theatre, and here you go... (somehow combine the two, and you get the inference)

Seriously, though, by every exam I've taken it's not likely that I'll hear anything below 30 Hz, and what I'll feel is really higher in frequency than that. Nonetheless, I know that my pants (if I'm wearing them—don't ask!!!) will flap even if I cannot feel or hear the sub 30 Hz output. If I feel my pant legs flapping, I know I'm there, right?

-------------------------------------------

Sonance84: The PT250s spec out at 0.2 Hz to 100 kHz +/- 3 dB.

I have two pairs of 240Tis sitting unused in my garage, and a pair of L7s and a pair of L5s in systems that are used regularly. They are simply better speakers in ways that matter to me, unless getting below 30 Hz is the more important quest.

The two 18's had my sunglasses swaying on my shirt, literally, when the cannons were firing in that movie , yes we may need to skip the lunch next time with double the power

-----------------------------------
0.2Hz, is that a typo?

Re: 240Ti,L7. Interesting they both have the same range 30-27k, and cross MF/HF at 900/4000... however, the LE14H-1 has to carry the load to 900Hz, where the L7's 120LEH-1 only up to 180Hz, leaving the 180-900 for another driver. I think this results in a fantastic bottom end, and similarly on the L5, even the smaller 8" 708G-1, having only to carry to 190Hz does a great job. I've never heard the 240Ti but seems most only reference it wrt how inferior it is to it's 4 way brother.

The L890 goes down to 28hz.

Yes +/-3dB

[Titanium Dome]

0.2Hz, is that a typo?

Nope. Imagine a speaker that could handle that.

[Sonance'84]

The L890 goes down to 28hz.

Yep, but the issue lies within the design using 8" LF drivers. Very rarely have I heard 8" woofers that can produce real low and clean bass, when implemented into a floorstanding speaker (especially a ported one).

The L5's can reproduce most music in great detail and clarity, only the bass lacks for me. The 1812 Overture was just a test I do on most big speakers, to see what they are capable of. For most other types of music, the L5's are great, as long as your not trying to play your favorite song real loud. I like my speakers to sound just as good at higher volumes as they do at low volume.

[JBLAddict]

Yep, but the issue lies within the design using 8" LF drivers. Very rarely have I heard 8" woofers that can produce real low and clean bass, when implemented into a floorstanding speaker (especially a ported one).

The L5's can reproduce most music in great detail and clarity, only the bass lacks for me. The 1812 Overture was just a test I do on most big speakers, to see what they are capable of. For most other types of music, the L5's are great, as long as your not trying to play your favorite song real loud. I like my speakers to sound just as good at higher volumes as they do at low volume.

all true. I first bought the L5 (6.5"MB+8"LF) to replace a vintage JBL with 12". The bass was comparable, but when the L7 with it's 12/8 combo arrived the difference in LF output was the most striking difference from 5-->7. The L5 is a pleasure to listen to but when the L7 is sitting right there, the choice is a no brainer if you have the right room and power.

no offense on the 1812 comment, I know it's often used as the bass "acid test", but so much net discussion revolves around the Hz lower limit, when for typical music listening, below around 35Hz is probably about the least important spec/character of the speaker IMHO. JBL has been prolly the undisputed king of bass in the past 40-50 years(?), yet none of their highest achievements, even their pinnacle Project Systems, go below 30Hz. Hell if the Sub1500 bottoms at 25Hz there seems no justification why any full range towers need to go to 20Hz for music?

[SEAWOLF97]

I like my speakers to sound just as good at higher volumes as they do at low volume.

this is something I love abt the 250Ti's ....they just scale higher & higher and don't seem to distort , have had them waayyy louder than comfortable , and they just keep going ...I chickened out first

no offense on the 1812 comment, I know it's often used as the bass "acid test", but so much net discussion revolves around the Hz lower limit, when for typical music listening, below around 35Hz is probably about the least important spec/character of the speaker IMHO.

yup

we've been through this mult times ...as I recall..the contra bass (tuba ?) produces the lowest bass in an orchestra and seems like it did low 30's and who wants to hear much of that ?

1812 ? How many times do you really listen to this piece ?? one a year ? the only real need for that type of bass is for movies or to show off ..

[Sonance'84]

all true. I first bought the L5 (6.5"MB+8"LF) to replace a vintage JBL with 12". The bass was comparable, but when the L7 with it's 12/8 combo arrived the difference in LF output was the most striking difference from 5-->7. The L5 is a pleasure to listen to but when the L7 is sitting right there, the choice is a no brainer if you have the right room and power.

no offense on the 1812 comment, I know it's often used as the bass "acid test", but so much net discussion revolves around the Hz lower limit, when for typical music listening, below around 35Hz is probably about the least important spec/character of the speaker IMHO. JBL has been prolly the undisputed king of bass in the past 40-50 years(?), yet none of their highest achievements, even their pinnacle Project Systems, go below 30Hz. Hell if the Sub1500 bottoms at 25Hz there seems no justification why any full range towers need to go to 20Hz for music?

I don't use subs. YOU might not want a full range floorstander to go to 20Hz, but I do and thats what make listeners different. If we all had the3 same system, it would be really boring going to a friends to listen. I wouldn't call JBL the undisputed king of bass...I will dispute that.

Dont take offense, this is just how I feel.

we've been through this mult times ...as I recall..the contra bass (tuba ?) produces the lowest bass in an orchestra and seems like it did low 30's and who wants to hear much of that ?

1812 ? How many times do you really listen to this piece ?? one a year ? the only real need for that type of bass is for movies or to show off ..

Ok gang up on me, but I wan't saying that I listen to 1812 every day and need speakers to do just that...I was stating my opinions on the type of speakers I'm I like to use and their characteristics. I listen to a plethora of different types of music, which some have really low bass that I would like to reproduce. Go play "Welcome to the Machine" loud on the L5's and tell me it sound as good as the L7's or even 240Ti's...I won't believe you.

Can't I have an opinion that doesn't coincide with you guys, or is that wrong?

[grumpy]

LOL... of course a different opinion is fine.

There are quite a few commercial recordings
that can benefit in a real and visceral way from
an extended low end response. Not just
fireworks, train engines, and cannons.

But to be honest, my system's in-room
response is sufficient for most of my
listening needs, and doesn't require a
vacated house to enjoy So the SUB1500
based house shakers haven't seen a lot of
regular action... a bit of a shame, really.

[SEAWOLF97]

Ok gang up on me, but I wan't saying that I listen to 1812 every day and need speakers to do just that...I was stating my opinions on the type of speakers I'm I like to use and their characteristics. I listen to a plethora of different types of music, which some have really low bass that I would like to reproduce. Go play "Welcome to the Machine" loud on the L5's and tell me it sound as good as the L7's or even 240Ti's...I won't believe you.

Can't I have an opinion that doesn't coincide with you guys, or is that wrong?

I had L7's and agree with most of what has been said here (and wasn't trying to gang up on you S84) .....and I have been listening to "Welcome to the Machine" (2011 Immersion remaster) and it sounds great on my ADS L-1290's - dual 8's and sweet mid/highs

and .....I do enjoy my little Sonance MB-30's

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post191910