The ultimate guitar stack

[jpb_dk]

Hi guys
can someone please post me ideas to a guitar-speaker stack ?
I would like to build a speaker for my guitar tube-amp.
The idea is ofcource a mix of good sound and a "outstanding testosteron smelling inverse waf-factor speaker". It shall look and sound a bit brutal and dirty *lol*

Maby a 4x"12 is not even enough any longer but thats what i had in mind. (ofcourse including build-in bottle opener)
I know that Fender used some JBL's and Marshal use Celestion. I really dont care about what the name is as long as it sounds good, and smells a little bit ugly.

Why... ? Well i miss building speakers like i did before, and like to spend some extra money on building it myself while laughing and drinking beers with friends and tell silly jokes. - is that so bad ? To me its just back to the beginning.

I like to see what ideas you guys with stage and studio experience can bring out.

Thanks
Jens

[boputnam]

Hey, Jens...

I will disappoint you, but my ideal "stack" is one 10" or 12" K-series driver in a tube-driven cabinet. Sorry - but even that can overpower the sound at FOH and complicate giving a good mix to the audience.

Last two shows I engineered were just that way. So, I merely tried to keep the guitar in the mix for recording purposes, but it was a struggle to keep the vocals audible for the audience. At one club, the lead guitar was +110dB off the amp - there was no way to safely get any vocals above that. Complaining did no good...

I think Kantner was >120dB at FOH, two weeks ago. I was backstage and just know it was screaming loud there. He was using two twin's angled toward each other. Wonderful "Starship" sound, but deafening.

The Tommy Castro band, a local bay-area rocker, puts his old Fender Reverb and his rhythm guitar players amps completely inside a dog-house, and stuffs a mic front and rear (out-of-phase). For "looks", they put grill cloth onto the front of the doghouse! There is almost no amp sound coming off front of stage. They all wear IEM's and have a great mix in the house. If only others would "listen"...

Anyway, I've soiled your thread. Sorry friend. At least the part about the K-series is useful!! They're THE BEST!!

[pelly3s]

4 k120's with a 50 watt plexi ripped wide open. that has to be one of my favorite sounds ever. I try to convince every guitar player i work with to either put a sheet of plexi glass in front of their cab or use a power attenuator

[johnaec]

I'm with Bo on this one. Even a single K120 cab play deafiningly, (sp?), loud. And I personally prefer point source - with 4 speakers, you get all these little interferences, depending where you are on stage...

John

[Hamilton]

Sorry Jens, but no matter how hard you try you'll never exceed the reputation of these :

[Hamilton]

At one club, the lead guitar was +110dB off the amp - there was no way to safely get any vocals above that. Complaining did no good...

Hey Bo, maybe you already know this but a way to get a loud guitar player to turn down is to bring his guitar up in his own monitor, to the point where he can't stand it.......they will usually turn down.

[Fred Sanford]

Haven't used JBLs much for guitar (other than bass), so I can't share much there other than 2 E120s in a Fender Super Twin is too f'in heavy and too f'in loud.

My 2 favorite setups are a single Celestion 65 12" in a open back cabinet and a Marshall 1960 4x12 slant closed back also with Celestion 65s. Having done years of FOH (including the Ramones: intestinal-rearranging stage volume), I know what the stage volume issues are, but that cabinet as it's set up is the sound I'm going for, I'm sure there are many factors interacting to achieve that.

Celestion 65s are getting very very hard to find, here's something that might be an option:

https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/weber/1230-55f.htm


I've also liked Mesa Boogie halfbacks, with 2 x 12"s open back and 2 x 12"s closed back (EV and Celestion respectively, I think). Nice mix of tones.

je

[boputnam]

Hey, Hamilton...

Yea, that sometimes will do it, but anyone in the spray off that monitor whines, too (like the bass player...). Plus, when tried, it ALL ends too loud on-stage. But we are hijacking this thread...

[jpb_dk]

Guys thanks for Your feedback, funny pics, spoiling my day.....

First of all it should ofcourse sound good, and as its a "build-your-self" having fun project there should also be room for some "bad-ass attitude"..

But i see Your point Bo, then please tell me why fender and marshall make 4x12 if its not the way to go ? Is it just "marketing" and power-wank ?

If one or two K's are the way to go, i like to hear about some cabinet-eksamples.
(Its for my music-room at the farmhouse where a few guys and I have fun playing blues/rock and sometimes recording to make it extra fun, not for stage)

Thanks
Jens

NB: For those of You who need schematics for tube amp i have posted a very interesting link under "off-topics". Enjoy.

[Oldmics]

Bo says

"I think Kantner was >120dB at FOH, two weeks ago."

and that was just his acoustic guitar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred Sanford says " Having done years of FOH (including the Ramones: intestinal-rearranging stage volume), "

We used to take bets on which corner Dee Dee was gonna throw up in when we did them at "Hammerjacks". I can feel your pain my brother!

I say.

You know how to get a guitar player to turn down?

Put SHEET MUSIC in front of him.

Oldmics-Les Paul with a wire plugged into the Marshall and the cabinet facing the player.

[Fred Sanford]

Probably as loud as the Ramones: when I was starting to bow out of the touring thing in '90 or so, I was offered (but passed up) 2 tours- one was FOH for Prong, touring with Voivod and Soundgarden. The other was guitar tech for Kix, opening for Whitesnake with Vai and Vandenberg. Thems woulda been loud, too, but bigger venues. The Ramones thing was sound pressure, it really was unbearable to my body to be on that stage.

Husker Du was loud in a different way, just a barrage of guitar- he used Fender Deluxes as pre-amps, into Yamaha G100s & 4x12"s.

Compare that to what I saw with The Fixx, what a pro that guitarist was (Jamie?). Very complex rig, but very very consistent and a genuinely nice guy to us (I did FOH for an opening band on their Calm Animals tour). Completely different style, he was constantly aware of how he & the whole band sounded to the house.

je

Whuh? Huh? Heh?

[Fred Sanford]

To answer the actual original question, if it's for wanking in a warehouse I'd look into the Mesa Boogie Halfback design- half open back (loose & messy & lots of sound heading back towards the drummer) half closed back (nice tight controlled bass). Industrial steel grille, big enough openings so they could easily be used for bottle openers.

http://63.243.93.163/images/photos/b...30873079_1.jpg

http://www.andersonguitargallery.com...2Halfback.html
je

[Zilch]

Build a HUGE stack and put one K110 in each box.


Heh, heh.

According to the lit, JBL MI drivers not supposed to be used in open-back enclosures.

E-Series, at least.

Actually, this little 2 x 10" mini-scoop is purty killer when loaded with JBL's.

Got recessed handles on the sides for two to carry, too...

It's wired for either mono or stereo chorus:

[Hinged cover is long lost, alas.... ]

Should I put D110F's or E110-8's in it?

[Fred Sanford]

Ah, see, now that does remind me of JBLs with guitar. We built these refrigerator-sized reflex cabinets (2x12s firing backwards into a triangular baffle that bounced the sound up & down to angled corners which bounced the sound out the front), loaded them with E120s and played Marshalls and Sunns and Randalls and HiWatts and lots of other beasts into them. Tough to describe, I'd have to sketch them. Not sure how sound the physics were, but they sure threw the sound to the back of the hall. Then (here's the funner part) I made scale versions for these 4" 40W JBL commercial series full-range drivers that I liked (8110?), and played guitar through them- loads of fun. Still have two of the 8110's in a small cabinet, can't kill 'em.

je

[Tom Loizeaux]

As I'm sure you all know, guitar amplification is all about "tone". "Tone" being thick, punchy, bright, distorted sound that makes one think the amp and speakers are about to blow up! This lends an "ergency" to the music, I suppose.
If you want that "modern" rock sound, then a classic Marshall tube head is a great start. Celestions seem to be a great combination with that head. You don't need eight of them, but a couple of Celestion 12s will fill any club.

I prefer the tone of vintage Fender amps. Though vintage style speakers reproduce the "original" Fender sound and do sound great, JBLs can also be very enjoyable with these amps.

Tom