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Thread: Studio L Series

  1. #16
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    and you think the beryllium 435Be compression driver couldn't have made it to 20,000 if they wanted to? Look at what they did with aluminum on other systems ( 4430 comes to mind)

    These are the most experienced people on the planet in designing compression drivers and implementing them into systems. If they can get aluminum and titanium to go to 20,000 in systems I have no doubt that beryllium could have, Tad seems to have done it pretty good.

    The supertweeter was NOT needed in the K2 , it was choosen. They could have gotten the 435Be to do upto 20,000 very easily.

    I may question some things about JBL, (marketing for example) and have a few bitches here or there. But one thing I don't question is the engineering talent and knowledge these people have. This is the company that has more experience in testing their products than any other company.

    I really don't think that GT and the other engineers sit around and think about how they can flim-flam people with useless Tricks to get people to buy, nor do I think they are ignorant about what they put in their speakers.

    well anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine. I'm thru writing about this aspect of the Studio L.

    hey guys any white papers or brochures. Sure could use some objective data, particualrly with the super tweeter

  2. #17
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLnsince1959
    and you think the beryllium 435Be compression driver couldn't have made it to 20,000 if they wanted to?.... They could have gotten the 435Be to do upto 20,000 very easily.
    I agree with your premise that the "DC to Light" specs that are being sought after today are mostly market driven, but I have heard many of the best compression drivers from JBL and TAD and none of them reproduce 20KHz (or 18KHz for that matter) as well as the 045Be.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBLnsince1959
    The supertweeter was NOT needed in the K2 , it was choosen.
    I agree with this statement. I would suggest that it was chosen to make the K2-S9800 a much better speaker than it would have been without it... and I am not talking about the performance above 20KHz either. There is simply a finesse to the sound that it wouldn't have if they had muscled the 435Be into super tweeter duty.


    Widget

  3. #18
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    Arrow supertweeter, eh?

    OK, where's the supertweeter bolt-on for the Performance Series? I smell a project!

    Who's going first?
    Out.

  4. #19
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
    Who's going first?
    I have already gone.

    I'd say there's a difference between 045Be and the monolythic mylar doodah they're using in L-Series.

    I doubt they'll replace the 053Tis in LSR with either anytime soon....

    [Or is it "dudah?"]

  5. #20
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
    OK, where's the supertweeter bolt-on for the Performance Series? I smell a project!
    Well, it may not be a Ti inverted dome, but how about this Be inverted dome for ya?

    Widget
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  6. #21
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    I agree with your premise that the "DC to Light" specs that are being sought after today are mostly market driven, but I have heard many of the best compression drivers from JBL and TAD and none of them reproduce 20KHz (or 18KHz for that matter) as well as the 045Be.



    Widget
    true, but I also meant that they can design the whole system around that. They have lots of experience with pure two ways.

    and also, they didn't have to use a tweeter that went that high. They could have used something that only went to 20 to 22. I personally feel thay think it was for better sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Well, it may not be a Ti inverted dome, but how about this Be inverted dome for ya?

    Widget
    Is that the one used in JM Labs speakers?

    I was thinking of using that one for a project.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    There is simply a finesse to the sound that it wouldn't have if they had muscled the 435Be into super tweeter duty.


    Widget
    You are right on the mark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
    OK, where's the supertweeter bolt-on for the Performance Series?
    Doesn't need one.

  8. #23
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLnsince1959
    They could have used something that only went to 20 to 22.
    Well, I'd argue that the 045Be really does only go to 20 or 22KHz... it goes out to 50KHz but it is so far down in output compared to it's output at 10KHz.... not that it really matters.

    Personally I don't care if the marketing department wants to make a big deal about a speaker that only dogs can hear as long as it sounds good to humans too.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBLnsince1959
    Is that the one used in JM Labs speakers?
    I was thinking of using that one for a project.
    Yep. I doubt you will be able to get them though. Like so many companies, the nice people at Focal are getting out of the DIY business.


    Widget

  9. #24
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    .

    Personally I don't care if the marketing department wants to make a big deal about a speaker that only dogs can hear as long as it sounds good to humans too.

    Widget
    Well, Whit ( My GS) would like it

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

    Yep. I doubt you will be able to get them though. Like so many companies, the nice people at Focal are getting out of the DIY business.


    Widget
    I can get one from some friends who sell JM Labs.

  10. #25
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
    OK, where's the supertweeter bolt-on for the Performance Series?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    Doesn't need one.

    Agree, just need some CC crossovers.........
    and maybe a single baffle box

  11. #26
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    They're 045Ti, actually, not Be....

  12. #27
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    I agree with your premise that the "DC to Light" specs that are being sought after today are mostly market driven, but I have heard many of the best compression drivers from JBL and TAD and none of them reproduce 20KHz (or 18KHz for that matter) as well as the 045Be.


    I agree with this statement. I would suggest that it was chosen to make the K2-S9800 a much better speaker than it would have been without it... and I am not talking about the performance above 20KHz either. There is simply a finesse to the sound that it wouldn't have if they had muscled the 435Be into super tweeter duty.


    Widget
    Well who really cares what you agree and don't agree with, this is an open forum community and your comments to an open media sound like a judgement call than moderation...check your RULES.

    AS usual you are all right and you are all wrong.

    Pity the facts are not correctly and fully represented.

    So for moderators casting their own limited and naive technical stature in a discussion....that should be chiselled as a Do NOT into the rule book.


    Yawn...............

    Ian

    Some of you might be surprised why I am making these post.

    No I am not picking on the Widget..but he wants to have a hard look at himself in the mirror...denial is a disease.

    Today I cleaned my in and out box. To my surprise over a dozen messages were issues raised in reference to moderation notabely conduct of moderators.

    Its rather unfortunately that in such a high profile forum we have people who simply do not practise what they preach. Its not surprising they get such a tough time of it from members.......

  13. #28
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLnsince1959
    Hey Dome:

    any idea why the Array thread was closed????
    You as a member have a right to a PUBLIC answer of that question raised.

    A non answer is misleading and deceptive in conduct.

    For moral and ethical reasons Don should come forward an offer an explanation.

    Ian

  14. #29
    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    You as a member have a right to a PUBLIC answer of that question raised.

    A non answer is misleading and deceptive in conduct.

    For moral and ethical reasons Don should come forward an offer an explanation.

    Ian
    Here's my real quick explanation. I don't want to waste too much of my life's time on something elaborate.

    1. I asked that the thread be closed.
    2. The story behind my request is long, dates back to a friendly request from JBL made over a year ago, has to do with Harman Japan, Northridge, and Woodbury, and I don't feel like getting into it. Take my word for it, the story is boring; quite uninteresting.
    3. JBL had the opportunity to review the thread.
    4. JBL graciously sent over some documents for us.
    5. The thread can now be opened if desired.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Thanks Lancer,

    At least someone is on the ball....and I admire your candid and transparent disclosure.

    Its about playing the game straight you have to be playing the game straight.

    If those in a position of responsibility can't abide by the rules they should step aside..period. Thankfully someone has come forward.

    Earl,

    This is not a knee jerk reaction, you must think I am asleep, read on:

    I expect this issue will wind up there. The problem with controls is that the controls themselves tend to lack the documentation of the enforcement.

    That's my point, Moderators have the advantage of sitting behind a one way mirror just like a detective cop TV show...what you see is only part of the picture...layers of it.

    The point is by virtue of Moderator status being an Icon, a moderator can influence, steer or manipulate the direction of a thread whether an opinion is intended or other wise and this is an area we as a community need to deal with. Many forum members feel inhibited or frightened off by the presence of a moderator in threads, and to use those words highlighted in RED is frankly a blight on free speaking members..... This is not the purpose of moderation.

    If a moderator wishes to enter a discussion, a mechanism needs to be developed where the moderator icon is turned off or they enter the thread on another identity.

    As to the rules I refer to the highlighted RED paragraphs below:

    YOU will note the reference to Forums issues, below is a link to the last posted thread in Forum Issues, how appropriate...

    Happy B-Day Ian


    Moderators will only intervene if they discover violations of the forum guidelines. In general, this means:

    1. Dealing with threads in inappropriate forums.
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    The following actions are available to the moderators to deal with these issues, depending on the type and severity of the violation.

    1. Issuing the subject party a reminder or warning about a potential or existing violation of the forum guidelines.
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    The first recourse for a moderator should always be to try and work out any perceived infraction of the guidelines with the responsible member. This is preferably done through PM’s as opposed to an open forum message to that member. However, there may be occasions where an open post is most appropriate, specifically if it involves infractions by more than one person in a given thread.

    If a moderator deems that a thread should be moved, the originator of that thread must always be contacted to explain the action through a PM. Whether this occurs in advance or after the fact depends on how clear cut the violation is. For example someone posting a “for sale” notice in the “General” forum is in obvious violation of the posting guidelines. Such a post would be moved directly and the originator would sent a PM to notify him of the move and why it occurred.

    Where it is less clear that a thread is off topic, then the originator should be sent a PM in advance of any action to indicate why it is perceived to be in violation of the guidelines and offering an opportunity for input from the originator. The final decision to move or keep the thread will be the moderator’s.

    Closing a thread to further input is a fairly drastic measure and should only be used if it is apparent that continuing the discussion has a significant risk of escalating violations. The moderator taking this action must post a final message in the thread explaining that it is now closed and why. The moderator should also let it be known that questions about this action can be made in the “Forum Issues” board or in a direct PM to the moderator in question.

    Deleting posts and threads are the most serious actions a moderator can take short of banning a member. The actions themselves have the potential to inflame members and discussions. Because of this, the first recourse of a moderator should be to ask a member in violation to edit or delete the offending post themselves. After 24hrs of posting, members no longer have editing access to their messages. In such a case, the moderator should request permission to edit or delete an offending post. If permission is not granted, the moderator has the final decision on whether to proceed with the edit or deletion. The originator must be contacted again if these actions are taken and given notice that they have occurred. For all posts edited or deleted by the moderator, the post field labelled “Reason for edit/deletion” must be filled out by that moderator.

    Posts can be deleted or edited without prior notice by the moderator if it is obvious that waiting for notification has the potential to escalate a situation. For example, profane name calling will be dealt with immediately. Violations of intellectual property rights (posting proprietary or copyrighted materials) will also be dealt with immediately when brought to a moderator’s attention. In these cases, the originator must be notified that these actions have been taken.

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    Deleting a thread is an order of magnitude more serious than deleting a post since it generally involves messages from numerous members, and very often innocent bystanders. This action shall only be taken if it the infractions cannot be dealt with by deleting or editing specific posts. For example, if a sufficient number of posts must be deleted so that it results in the loss of coherency of a thread, then the thread may be deleted. As a further example, if the thread topic itself is in violation of the forum rules, then the entire thread may be deleted. All thread deletions must be accompanied by a new post by the moderator in the “Forum Issues” board with notice that the deletion has occurred, the rationale for the deletion, and an offer to discuss an appeal. The entire moderating team will decide any appeal requests to restore a deleted thread.

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    In every case, a banned member will be sent an email notifying them of the ban's existence, the duration and the reason. The member may appeal to the moderating team to reconsider. Bans will only be reconsidered if the member can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the entire moderating team why a ban would be inappropriate for the circumstances.

    As a final word, it should be obvious in reading through the above that openness, communication and understanding are the guiding principles of moderation for this forum. For this reason, the moderators must never act without making the impacted parties aware of their actions. They must always give reasons for their actions and opportunities for recourse.



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