I wish my german was a good as your english!Originally Posted by paragon
sometimes help takes a while -- hopefully the most desperate situations will be alleviated soon.....
I agree it is terrible....
I wish my german was a good as your english!
sometimes help takes a while -- hopefully the most desperate situations will be alleviated soon.....
I agree it is terrible....
Folks,
I spent about a dozen years in the "Emergency Management" business -- something I got out of about six years ago. My impression currently is that, at the very least, we're seeing a horrifyingly poor emergency management response to this disaster, from all levels of government.
FEMA is an interesting federal agency, but quite certainly, one truth can be said about it:
Only once in the history of FEMA has it been headed by anyone who had any professional experience in "emergency management." For years since its inception, FEMA was always run by an ex-military official -- usually some general, as a nice career- and pension-extending plum assignment. Then, President Clinton did something different -- he hired James Lee Witt, who had served with him as Emergency Management director in Arkansas.
Well, let's go back a few years before that: Hurricane Andrew hit Florida a year before Clinton took office, and FEMA was raked over the coals for taking so long to respond to the disaster. Prior to that, the FEMA director at the time didn't even bother to cut short the vacation he was on when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit the San Fransisco area. During all of this time, FEMA's focus was on "nuclear attack planning," and more war-time "civil defense" type priorities -- with very little focus on handling natural disasters.
Well, James Lee Witt changed all of that. He quickly moved the focus of the agency to natural disaster planning, and he comprehended one very important thing: THE FIRST 72 HOURS were what needed to be focused upon most of all. If you recall back during Hurricane Andrew, FEMA and the State of Florida squabbled about whether or not Florida had "formally requested" FEMA's help. "Insanity" or some such thing must have been what James Lee Witt thought -- when he took control, FEMA started proactively going out BEFORE a disaster hit, if that was possible -- getting "command and control" out in a region ahead of a hurricane, and so on. Putting plans in motion to get relief supplies on the road BEFORE the hurricane hit, and so on.
Very simply, that kind of action prevented the kind of three-to-five-day wait for relief that we're seeing in New Orleans this week.
So, what did our current President Bush do with FEMA? Well, here's an article that describes that far better than I could do here:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090205Z.shtml
There's some political stuff in there that you may or may not agree with, but that pretty well lays the facts in this story down. Once again, FEMA has been "led" by people with no emergency management experience, it slipped to a far more "reactive" role than "proactive," and it presumably hasn't had nearly the amount of funding it once had.
To me, this is just evidence of the kind of priority Bush has put on "taking care of the average American" -- "we" always seem to be an afterthought, if thought about at all. So, this is exactly the kind of result I have come to expect from the Bush regime. Enough politics, though -- let me end this with my thoughts regarding what I just heard on CNN, and what has been discussed widely on the Internet: Would this slow response have happend if this was an affluent, white area? I've heard many people say "no," but I disagree -- it simply took this long for FEMA to get a response to the disaster coordinated and under way. The only real difference would have been that an affluent area would have probably evacuated itself far more than this one did -- showing all the more that the LOCAL emergency management planning should have had a better plan than just telling everyone to evacuate the area. They don't appear to have had any plan to provide the MEANS for such an evacuation, for residents who didn't have the means themselves.
At any rate, my take on all of this. Hope you found it worth reading!
Does San Francisco, New York, Los Angles etc have an effective evacuation plan to remove all or even 73% of their population and relocate them with a couple of days notice? I'm not trying to make a point, I just wonder if the major cities are capable of this in an emergency. And I doubt it.
Robin
There, ( IMHO ), should have been mandatory evacuation, and those that refused to go should have been taken out of there! The local govt or state should have gotten some form of transportation over there to get them out of there! This is what they did in Miami in 92! They took people to the mainland, whether they agreed to go or not!
As to why the people in need of help the most, are being so hostile towards the people coming in to help, I dont know!
scottyj
Actually, these places SHOULD have such plans. They pay a number of people plenty of money to write and update such plans, and to exercise them to try to figure out if they are feasible or not.
One thing you do (which we didn't see in New Orleans), is get all "incoming" traffic blocked so that all freeways go "outbound." Then, you figure out what proportion of people can drive themselves out. Then, you come up with a plan to move the rest of the people. How many public transit system buses do you think cities like these have? How many school buses do you think these places have?
I truly think that, given competent emergency management planning, even our largest cities can be evacuated successfully. In fact, you saw that kind of thing in action on 9/11, as people were evacuated from lower Manhattan, walking across the Brooklyn Bridge, taking ferry boats, and so on. For what it's worth, it takes planning on a "local" level to achieve this kind of thing -- not anything that FEMA does. Though, FEMA would indeed provide some kind of funding to the local levels to fund this kind of planning.
Kind of what I was getting at...unless you can't walk, hitchhike, ride a bike...there was several days notice to evacuate.
... In fact, you saw that kind of thing in action on 9/11, as people were evacuated from lower Manhattan, walking across the Brooklyn Bridge...
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
Nope, no doubt.
In all of our earthquake preparedness information here, we are cautioned that we'll be on our own for a minimum of 5 days when the "Big One" comes. No jurisdiction has the means for instant response of the requisite scale.
HOWEVER, I would think it prudent for a city such as New Orleans, under imminent threat of inundation at any time, to have an emergency response plan fairly high among civic priorities. It ain't real hard to figure that the sewers aren't gonna work if the place floods, and it might have been reasonable to expect bottled water and rations to be stored in emergency shelters on high ground, as well as a workable evacuation plan.
I acknowledge that this is all contrary to "Big Easy" culture, but still, NOTHING but some pumps that don't work? First response must come from the local jurisdiction responsible for the safety of its citizens, and one lonely pissed-off mayor afterwards doesn't get it done.
New Orleans is (was) a HUGE economic machine. There's no excuse....
it is my understanding that the highways were 'contra-flowed'....
For the author of this politcally charged piece of "journalism" to suggest that the aftermath of the powerful natural disaster could be prevented is complete and utter. The reason so many people died from the tsunami in Thailand and surrounding areas was because there was no warning system at all...and people still would have died...it's all a terrible
tragedy. But come on...it wasn't just a flood...there was 150+ mph winds that the flood water had nothing to do with. There's only so much mankind can do to defend against Mother Nature....if she really wants to, Mother Nature will kick your ass....and this time she did it good. Let's stop the friggin' political finger pointing and deal with the mess. How 'bout just a little support for President Bush? This guy has been dealt disaster after disaster and he hasn't collasped from the stress yet...or been checked into rehab.
Oh yeah...almost forgot...former President Clinton cut the military by half.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
I think Thoots nailed it.
Sometime back I worked for a key supplier of our emergency services. Most of the budget was for EVAC planning and the alliances in place with other agencies to prepare a co ordinated effort in the event of a disaster right down to the plan and directions with a fridge magnet for every citizen.
Ian
I won't live in a bowl, I won't live in a trailer in tornado alley, and I won't build on a flood plain. And above and beyond the before mentioned I would never depend on the goverment to protect my ass if I live in these areas. The ideal that All these people should be already rescued, sheltered, clothed, fed since the winds died down on Monday morning is ridiculous. The main problem was in New Orleans and everyone was breathing a sigh of relief until the levee's broke. I love all the Monday morning quaterbacks saying we should have done this are that. Hell there is a lot of things that should be done on all the fault lines, flood plains, ect, around the country....plans, contingencies, ect. Step back and look at the devistation. Yes the goverment is doing a shitty job....is that a surprise? Goverment waste and bureacacy knows no party.....insert Clinton where Bush is and you have more of a showman but the same results. Everyone from the grunt living in his shack to the Highest level of goverment assumed that someone has thier back. The best we can get out of this is learn from it because it's going to happen again and again through time. The biggest problem I think we all have out of this is the frustration that we can't do didly about it so we have to vent..... we point fingers. and I for one agree that we should learn from this but the ideal that one "average man" at best like "Bush" should have done this or that....well it just pisses me of when politics is injected. This is just a case of American's thinking it won't happen to them and not heeding the warnings. We don't heed any warnings when it comes to gas consumption, global warming, on and on. That's a whole other topic. The ideal that the Federal Goverment is at fault, or 1 particlar politician is ridiculous. What Nation could have all the issues resolved from such an occurence in 1 week if we can't. I will not argue that more could have been done but I just find it sad that it has to be a political football and we haven't even recovered. During 9/11 you were able to communicate and had power, lights, transportation and it was limited to a few blocks. Here the devistation goes on for blocks. I feel helpless, it is frustrating. Don't think I'll be offended if you fire back, pile on....I'm just venting too.
Then I'll vent too...
be careful who you contribute to:
http://www.the-catbird-seat.net/RedCross.htm
40+ years of sacrifice...and for what???
Well, no, you wouldn't see "evacuation" as a part of earthquake preparation, of course. Maybe some day we'll be able to predict those. However, the "you will be on your own" part is the same for everything -- you really should have a "72 hour kit" or something -- especially enough drinkable water and something to eat that doesn't need to be cooked, to last 3 to 5 days, or more.
Yep. It sure appears that the officials there recognized that the city was highly at risk of flooding. That's what you do as an emergency manager -- you determine what you are most at risk for, and then you develop plans to deal with that kind of emergency. You've nailed plenty of it -- at least make rations available for the emergency responders. Make sure they've got the equipment they need to respond to this kind of situation. And so on. Of course, it takes a pile of money to put stuff like that in place....HOWEVER, I would think it prudent for a city such as New Orleans, under imminent threat of inundation at any time, to have an emergency response plan fairly high among civic priorities. It ain't real hard to figure that the sewers aren't gonna work if the place floods, and it might have been reasonable to expect bottled water and rations to be stored in emergency shelters on high ground, as well as a workable evacuation plan.
I acknowledge that this is all contrary to "Big Easy" culture, but still, NOTHING but some pumps that don't work? First response must come from the local jurisdiction responsible for the safety of its citizens, and one lonely pissed-off mayor afterwards doesn't get it done.
New Orleans is (was) a HUGE economic machine. There's no excuse....
And, yes, people DO have to take responsibility for their lives, too. It WILL take a while for relief to get to them.
and of course....here's Jesse Jackson...a man of peace
Jackson Blasts Bush Over Katrina Aid
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By DOUG SIMPSON
BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) - Racism is partly to blame for the deadly aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said, calling President Bush's response to the disaster ``incompetent.''
``Today, as the President comes to Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi for his ceremonial trip to look at the victims of the devastation, he would do well to have a plan more significant than a ceremonial tour,'' Jackson said Friday.
``His whole response is unacceptable.''
Bush has acknowledged that the federal response has not been acceptable, but promised that the government would get supplies to survivors and crack down on violence in New Orleans.
Jackson questioned why Bush has not named blacks to top positions in the federal response to the disaster, particularly when the majority of victims remaining stranded in New Orleans are black: ``How can blacks be locked out of the leadership, and trapped in the suffering?''
``It is that lack of sensitivity and compassion that represents a kind of incompetence.''
U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Russell Honore, head of the military task force overseeing operations in the three states, is black. His task force is providing search and rescue, medical help and sending supplies to the three states in support of the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
Jackson was in Baton Rouge to take part in a local project using a caravan of buses to pick up people stranded in New Orleans and transport them out. He spoke at a news conference at the state emergency center.
The civil rights leader said the flooding that caused thousands to be trapped inside the city was caused by a lack of federal funding for its levee system and hurricane planning. The resulting tragedy, he said, has largely hit New Orleans' black residents, because they were too poor to evacuate before the storm hit.
``There's a historical indifference to the pain of poor people and black people'' in this country, he said.
Jackson also said the news media has ``criminalized the people of New Orleans'' by focusing on violence in the city.
09/02/05 15:48
© Copyright The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
..
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
The following is not directed at anyone in particular. Please do not turn this thread into a political football. We are witnessing a great tragedy and using this as an opportunity to score political points on this forum is inappropriate and divisive. I have to admit one of my strongest reactions to the images and stories coming out of this catastrophe is anger and I have my own targets for directing that anger. However, I will not express them here because it would do no good and only have the potential for harm. There are numerous political forums out there that are expressly designed to allow this type of discourse if you so wish. That being said, it is not my intent to close off discussion on this topic. There are a lot of constructive issues that can become the focus of this thread.
Regards
Don McRitchie
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