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Thread: 275nd / S3100 compatibility

  1. #31
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    Will keep you informed although perhaps these questions have been answered with Zilchs' experimentations.... I have not had the time to follow all of those experiments!
    Bottom line: Sound great, frequency response is different, tho; crossover tweaks required; haven't done it yet.

    Used autoEQ to play them....

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    Will keep you informed although perhaps these questions have been answered with Zilchs' experimentations.... I have not had the time to follow all of those experiments !

    Bernard
    Zilch's experiments have nothing to do with you. You will have to measure your horn/cd combos and affect network changes accordingly. No one can do it for you.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Bernard Wolf's Avatar
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    Well that leaves me out as there is no way I can do it ! I will just keep praying for a second 275nd to show up and then have a new MKII x'over built for me by Solen here in Montreal. Any ideas who I should pray to ??

  4. #34
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    Ship your loudspeakers to Zilch or see if Earl will help you there.
    Or is Earl in Toronto?

    I'd be interested in knowing what Solen would charge you to build a pair of MK II networks.

    So what do you have? A pair of 275Nd diaphragms that you want to put in 2425/2426 cores?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Bernard Wolf's Avatar
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    Earl is in Toronto which is about 350 miles..

    Shipping at about 300 lbs would be way over the top..

    Solen would charge I don't know what for those x'overs.. I'm guessing maybe $500.00 or so ?? I do have an electrical engineer friend who I could prob talk into it.. He would normaly be of help here also but he lives in Boston.

    What I have is 1 275nd and 1 275nd diaphram. The thought was to take out the one diaphram and with the other try them in the 2426 just to see/hear.. but that does not seem possible , for me anyways.. I waited 2-3 yrs for the first 275nd on ebay.. hope I don't have to wait as long for the second.

  6. #36
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Problem with MKII is knowing the inductor DCR's.

    I could probably guess at them in Spice, smoothing out the notches:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...2&postcount=10

    Another alternative: I could maybe tweak the N3100 crossovers I built with 275nd diaphragms in 2426H and send 'em to you to try. (The crossovers, not the drivers. )

    Or the tweaks to do your own, or have done.

    What you're trying to accomplish is a custom design. That requires having, or having access to, some way of measuring the result.

    'Course I advocate every serious user have an RTA, anyway, and learn how to use it.

    [$250 at Guitar Center.... ]

  7. #37
    Senior Member Bernard Wolf's Avatar
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    So did you actually manage to get the 275 dias to fit in the 2426 ? Just a drop in ? If that were a known, for me at least, then I would attempt to tweak the x'over. BTW, I have a spare N3100 x'over

    Bernard

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    Earl is in Toronto which is about 350 miles..

    Shipping at about 300 lbs would be way over the top..

    Solen would charge I don't know what for those x'overs.. I'm guessing maybe $500.00 or so ?? I do have an electrical engineer friend who I could prob talk into it.. He would normaly be of help here also but he lives in Boston.

    What I have is 1 275nd and 1 275nd diaphram. The thought was to take out the one diaphram and with the other try them in the 2426 just to see/hear.. but that does not seem possible , for me anyways.. I waited 2-3 yrs for the first 275nd on ebay.. hope I don't have to wait as long for the second.
    I would imagine it would be tough to find another one. Those systems they were used in aren't parted out too often. You might try contacting Harman Japan about getting a single 275Nd.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Bernard Wolf's Avatar
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    Mr. Widget tried that for me through a friend of his in Japan.. no go. Apparently they are 'obsolete'.. which really kills me. I guess they will repair them though.

  10. #40
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    Yeah, obsolete here too.
    I'll check around Monday.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Bernard Wolf's Avatar
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    Well I certainly appreciate that... not much doing here. They (JBL Montreal) can barely comprehend what I am talking about! But in any case, whatever.. it's not like the 2426H sounds terrible you know .

    Thanks - Bernard

  12. #42
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    So did you actually manage to get the 275 dias to fit in the 2426?
    Yes, but I should probably try to "optimize" the installation alignment. One's a little different from the other; I'd like to get them better matched.

    Wish I had a pair of coated standard diaphragms for comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    BTW, I have a spare N3100 x'over
    That's even better. You can do your tweakin' on that one....

  13. #43
    Senior Member Bernard Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch

    Wish I had a pair of coated standard diaphragms for comparison.

    That's even better. You can do your tweakin' on that one....
    What do you mean by "standard Diaphragms"? 275nd's or 2426H ?

    As for tweaking, yes, if I knew what to tweak.... I was thinking more of like sending it to you

  14. #44
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    What do you mean by "standard Diaphragms"? 275nd's or 2426H?
    DxR2425, 8 and 16 Ohms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Wolf
    As for tweaking, yes, if I knew what to tweak.... I was thinking more of like sending it to you
    Yeah, that'll work. I'll PM you the address should you decide to do it.

    Only problem is, I'll have have to actually DO something around here for a change....

  15. #45
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    Hi Bernard,

    Good Thing you're a patient guy !

    - Since I saw my name mentioned above, within the context of helping to solve your dilemma / I've had a simplified S3100mkII network ( hipass only ) up & running on a 2426/2344 combo ( that's about 4 1/2 weeks now ). "Simplified" equates to just wiring up the "0" postion of the 3-way pad. Now I've got to reclaim my work bench ( after some documentation ) .

    - Bottom Line ;The mkII hipass network is a lot more sophisticated than your stock 3100 type and is in my opinion a worthwhile improvement for the investment.
    - So yes ! you should get a pair of mkIIs' networks built to use with your aquaplased diaphragms ( even the stock 2426 drivers ).

    - The mkII network is a powerfull, user friendly network ( for tweakers ) that can easily accomodate changes, such as those driven by placing an aquaplased diaphragm in a ferrite 2426 magnet or even using a different horn flare .
    - For example; I reassigned the LCR notch filters to work with a stock 2426/2344 combo . This meant substituting more appropriate LC values ( to the notch filters as well as the main 2-pole elements ) to counteract the 2344 horns' midrange undulatons. All in all , a great learning experience for me ( the buried inductor under the conjugate resistor in the Lpad was a real eyeopener ).

    - Next time I'm in Montreal ( likely late summer / & if you desire ) , I'll bring along some test equipment to properly align your 275nd diaphragms ( in the stock 2426 drivers / that'll mean stripping the 275nd driver of it's diaphragm for use elsewhere ).

    - PM me if interested. This will all need to wait till mid-summer when my time frees up. It'll also require onsite tweaking to properly dial-in the three notchfilters. That'll mean working onsite at your place ( & between golfgames / which is usually my best reason to be in Montreal ) .


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