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Thread: JBL-NOT!! - DIY 4351 Studio Monitor

  1. #46
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    That's a slippery slope...
    Do you mean as in G.T. recommending against using a 1200 Hz crossover from a baffle mounted driver into a larger horn (for Project May)--the time alignment problems become audible at that frequency?

    David

  2. #47
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky
    After looking at the photo's again, your right. The baffle does not have enough room where the horn hole is cut.

    Ken
    Ken: If you get a chance, show me a pic of what you're talking about. Even though I'm neck deep in big monitors, I always look forward to building something new. I plan to keep these for a while but have had a couple of interested buyers. Since I only "REALISTICALLY" have room in the house for one pair this big something will eventually go. Rick

  3. #48
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riessen
    Ken: If you get a chance, show me a pic of what you're talking about.
    I am not exactly sure where Ken was going with this... but I did spend quite a bit of time messing around in these waters. Here are my explorations. I started with the test boxes in the lower right and ended with the system at the top of the page. Aesthetically I never fell in love with any of them.

    As I mentioned earlier... I think you have found your sound... back when I was messing around with 4355s I never found mine. I kept looking and have since stumbled upon it.

    Widget
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  4. #49
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Wood Horn Alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by riessen
    Ken: If you get a chance, show me a pic of what you're talking about. Even though I'm neck deep in big monitors, I always look forward to building something new. I plan to keep these for a while but have had a couple of interested buyers. Since I only "REALISTICALLY" have room in the house for one pair this big something will eventually go. Rick
    Well, I don't have a picture of exactly what I meant but I see Widget has provided several drawings. I know one thing, once you hear the difference between the standard 4350 horn and a wood horn, I would bet you will never look back. The ideal scenario would be loading the horn right on the baffle. I can see from the photos that would not be possible with the current baffle layout.

    Ken

  5. #50
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky
    Well, I don't have a picture of exactly what I meant but I see Widget has provided several drawings. I know one thing, once you hear the difference between the standard 4350 horn and a wood horn, I would bet you will never look back. The ideal scenario would be loading the horn right on the baffle. I can see from the photos that would not be possible with the current baffle layout.

    Ken
    Ken: Is it acceptable to mount the horn TOP/CENTER on the baffle with the 2405 and the mid-base below it, to the right and left of the baffle centerline ??? Looking at Widget's drawings-there's a ton of possibilities. If I build new cabinets they need to be upright for the sake of floor space.

    Rick

  6. #51
    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    Slippery Slope

    Quote Originally Posted by riessen
    If I build new cabinets they need to be upright for the sake of floor space.
    Go completely modular then. Use 2234H's instead of 2235H's. The 4435 bottom end is excellent. Use the wood horn as Ken suggests. Put a titanium/aquaplas diaphragm in the 2" throat compression driver. Power the whole mess with active filters. Use a chip amp on the slot loaded ring radiator.

    If you do use passive filters don't waste your time with anything less than full blown charge coupled versions of the 4355 filters.

  7. #52
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Guys - Thanks for the input. You have to keep in mind that I'm a plug-n-play JBL guy and I have ZERO experience with some of the off the wall stuff that's out there. Wood Horns - yep, I've seen them and know what they are but never used them. Charge Coupled Capacitors - those are used in Ray Guns, right ??? I'm all for trying something new but if you guys lead me in, you may be stuck baby sitting me thru the project.

    How much room on the baffle (L x W) do these wood horns occupy?? Where can I find dimensions on different models?? What cabinet depth is required with a typical 2" throat driver hanging on it?? I would suspect that some sort of internal support is required for the driver. I have planned on building another big system but have not given much thought to WHAT. I guess I'm in the planning stage now. Thanx for your input.

  8. #53
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4351 Monitors

    Cabinet Insulation - Who's the Guru out there that is all knowing on the requirements for insulating the inside surfaces of the cabinets? Why did JBL choose a medium density insulation that is usually about 1" thick? Is denser better? How thick should it be? All that is typically available is regular old house insulation from Home Depot - too soft, no stability, pain in the ass. I recently started using a much higher density fiberglass type that is used by HVAC contractors to insulate ducting. Great to work with, varying thickness available and holds it's form. I used this type on my new cabinets. Will try to get some pics to show it installed. Your comments would be appreciated.

  9. #54
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I use this stuff... I hate working with it, but love the results... I believe it is identical to the original JBL material.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...94&postcount=7

    Widget

  10. #55
    Senior Member stevem's Avatar
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    The Wrap-on is what I use, but I have been doubling it up for 2 inch thickness in woofer cabinets. Is this a good or bad thing?

  11. #56
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevem
    The Wrap-on is what I use, but I have been doubling it up for 2 inch thickness in woofer cabinets. Is this a good or bad thing?
    If it sounds good....it is indeed a good thing ...when in doubt..trust your ears... because you can't use anyone elses'.

    Edgewound

  12. #57
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Yeah, ....what he said.


    Widget

  13. #58
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Hmm, I opened a can of worms

    Riessen

    The horn would work great mounted right on top and in the center of the cab but the WAF may cause you probs. Thats "wife acceptance factor".

    Be aware, these are damned expensive horns and you may not have it in the budget? They are however built better than the original Westlake horns in MHO.

    In the words of Mike Myers " They be smooth "like Butta".

    PS: There was a guy on Ebay selling a beat up pair of old Westlakes that had the large wood horn just last week. I don't know if they sold but you could spend 20-30 hours repairing and refinishing them and save a bundle. Bummer, they sold http://cgi.ebay.com/Westlake-Hiddley...QQcmdZViewItem

    At 200.00 they were a steal even in that bad a shape. Mine took some work to clean up as well.

    In any case you have great looking speaker there. Please let us know how you like them.

    Ken


    Ken

  14. #59
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4351 Monitors

    Ken: I've thought about some of the Westies and may well coast into a pair some day.

    I think I'd prefer the horn mounted on the baffle and keep everything under the grille. Westlake has a similar sized vertical 4 way and 5 way with baffle mounted horn. If the price of the wood horns changes my mind I'll look into a longer metal horn with a serpentine lens. Who makes a suitable horn/with serp lens for the 2" throat drivers??

    Guess I should keep an eye open for a pair of Westlakes that are beat and need work. I'd not hesitate to take on the restoration.

    Thanx again - Rick

  15. #60
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    Well the horns look like they could be the real deal,but the rest looks like crap. Those cabinets look like they would explode if they were loaded with some 2235,s Still if the horns are intact they would still sound pretty much the same as minty ones,they just would not be as pretty to look at.

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