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Thread: Ultimate Large Format JBL System

  1. #1
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Ultimate Large Format JBL System

    Hi all, been away for a while. I have a question for you guru's out there.

    If space and a good budget up to 10 grand where available, what hybrid 43XX series would you create. For example: 4355 using dual 2245H's or the standard 2235H's.

    I very seriously want a description of your ultimate dream system including the component list and type/model of active/passive crossovers including crossover points.

    Any and all opinions would be very much appreciated.

    Ken

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    Hi:

    I am no guru, but check my thread "BIG monitors" on general.

    As far as xovers, JBL 532/3 or 5234 around 200-250Hz.

    3107 with bypass caps from 200-250Hz up.

    I promised to post pics but have not been able yet.

    Alex.

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Ken,

    I can't imaging a better no holds barred monitor than your present system in the right environment.

    The only contendors would be from the same stable.

    However, that said I've read of a system in European studio using a 30 inch fostex woofer sub, dual 2226 mid bass, a single 4 x 2118s, an inverted 2440 with exposed 4 inch titanium dome (no horn), and fostex super horn, the crossover was a secret custom job and power by 4000 watts a side.

    More recently, the newer JBL SR L32 has found favour with the Bag End sub.

    regards

    Ian

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    Hi:

    I have nos 3107's (4350), how would You bias them?, I planned to use the bypass caps as described elsewhere.

    Thanks: Alex

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Ultimate Large Format JBL System

    Originally posted by Giskard
    I'd consider allowing the 2202H's to roll off naturally and then add in the dual 2235H's on the bottom as required with a variable active low pass filter.
    I have tried both setups with the 250-290Hz crossover on mine. I still haven't finished with my tweaks, but so far I haven't come to a definitive conclusion regarding the crossover between the dual 2235s and the 2202. I definitely prefer the more open sound of not listening to the midrange on up through the active crossover, but when pushed to high SPLs I feel the 2202 may be adding grunge since it is trying to reproduce 20Hz. I have a new active crossover that is very open sounding. I have been enjoying it immensely on another system and will try it on the 4355s soon.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    "No, the 2202H isn't trying to reproduce 20 Hz. "

    I know that, I am prone to slight exaggeration at times.

    I can't push these monsters for more than a few minutes as I give out, but I want to be able too!

    Widget

  7. #7
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Roll off via constriction

    A couple of questions about this:

    If the response is rolled off by constriction and there is also a filter, do the rates compound?

    A driver rolled off by constriction is still getting its share of power the amp is putting out at those frequencies below the rolloff hinge. Will the voice coil actually heat up more because the energy cannot be dissipated by conversion to mechanical energy? In other words, does the driver have to be able to take the punishment?

    This is important to me because I am considering using a pair of Stephens 80FR as bass-mids.

    Thanks,

    David

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    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    I was standing in a recording studio today as they were removing a pair of big Urei monitors. I don't know the model number, but they were the ones with the 15" co-ax and an additional 15. The co-ax had the Urei blue straight-sidded horn and and one of the woofers looked like a Gauss or EV because of the cast finned magnet cover. These were in LARGE cabinets and had a sophisticated Urei crossovers. The engineer said he prefered these to the big Genelec monitors hanging next to them! I'm sure these Urei's sound great. I also agree that Ken's Westlakes will sound wonderful as well.

    As I've said before, my fantasy would be to build a tower version of the JBL 4350 (4355) using the current "best available drivers" to complete the system. Getting the cabinets to stand about 5' tall would help with the sound stage. I would definately bi-amp these at 250 Hz and would use the 3107 crossovers after tweaking them to modern specs. I think the dual 2235Hs in a large cabinet would cover the low end as well as any other drivers and the 2" compression drivers would be hard to beat too.
    Then, of course, I'd have to buy a pair of outstanding stereo amps (Mark Levinson?) to get the most out of these.
    Does it get any better then that? I don't think so.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Loizeaux; 08-27-2003 at 06:41 PM.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Yeah I am partial to my Urei clone. If I ever get my hands on another pair of 801C drivers I would be tempted to try a matching LRC 811C front end for my HT. There is something about them that is hard to describe. Voices/instruments are just so natural sounding through them. Don't know if its the point source or just a good pairing between the E-145 2425 and horn or both.

    I think I would like to try large format compression drivers, a system like the 4355 sounds like a real killer. Must be lots of fun to kick back in front of a pair of those and just let your favorite kick a** tracks rip

    Heaven on earth

    Rob

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Widget,

    Hi there,

    If you are after perfection, a minimalist passive high pass filter between the preamp outptut and the mid/high amp using a nice film/foil capacitor/resister may do the trick.

    The slope would be only 6 db per octave as opposed to 12 as recommended by JBL but it would certainly reduce any intermodulation and be as transparent as a filter can be.

    I recall JBL adopted a similar scheme for the high pass output of the BX 63 sub crossover (ie no chips in the signal path)

    Ian

  11. #11
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I have thought about doing a passive high level filter, however I don't have any formulae for calculating values that would provide different turn over frequencies for the different input impedances of my various components etc. To be fair I haven't even done a simple google search for info. I do think that a properly designed first or second order passive high level network with premium components is probably the ideal minimalist set up. If I ever get finished with this project I may try it out.

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Oh I understand,

    I think I am also in the same boat.

    regards

    Ian

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Here is a solution for passive high level filters.

    I just did a quickie google search and came up with this. It looks like a good starting point.

    http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/f...ssiveHLxo.html

  14. #14
    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    The Parts Express catalogue has this table in it. It shows caps and coils required for 1st, 2nd & 3rd order networks for use in 4, 8 and 16 ohm systems. Once you see the chart you'll see that you can expand it, if necessary, to cove a larger range.

    Tom

  15. #15
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tom Loizeaux
    The Parts Express catalogue has this table in it. It shows caps and coils required for 1st, 2nd & 3rd order networks for use in 4, 8 and 16 ohm systems. Once you see the chart you'll see that you can expand it, if necessary, to cove a larger range.

    Tom
    Hi Tom,

    I didn't take a look at the Parts Express site, but you mention coils and speaker impedances, so I assume the table they are showing is for the standard Butterworth filters for passive crossovers used after the amps.

    The filters Ian and I were discussing are used between preamp and power amp. They are a very simple and audibly superior way to create a bi-amped system, but are not as convenient to use as a variable frequency active crossover and they do have insertion loss.

    Widget

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