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Thread: Capacitors...

  1. #31
    PSS AUDIO
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    Caps are more significant than you may think!

    I already heard something like that, but it was about amplifiers!

    From my own and small experience I can say that when I received my 4350 speakers last year, I was quite disappointed and not that much satisfied, the 2405 were working but not that nice.

    By opening the x-over box I checked all the wires and soldering and discovered a bad one, one of the 2405 ran better.

    Fed up of this odd situation, I dismantled the two x-over and removed all the caps.

    I replaced them with polypropylene ones from a well-known French manufacturer: SCR.

    And suddenly the cabinet began sounding great!

    Some add for PSS now: We were manufacturing some standard x-over wired on epoxy PCB, air coil and those SCR capacitors. Everybody was quite surprised about how nice his speaker worked.

    It is well known that polystyrene capacitors are one of the best and must be used for an audiophile result.

    From what I read here and there, you seem to have some difficulties buying such capacitors and you are complaining too that they are quite expensive.

    We have quite good stock left as we stopped manufacturing our x-over (not enough sales and quite “expensive” compared to regular x-over made of non-polarized electrolytic capacitors).

    That is why; if you collect all your needs I can manage shipping at a very good prices SCR capacitors.

    Please Email me if you need such caps!

    If you want to see what they are looking like, browse our web site, product page!

  2. #32
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    SCR capacitors

    Hi Yuri

    Thankyou for the information and your offer to sell your SCR caps. I'll collect my needs and send you a PM to see what we can work out.

    Since I'm in Toronto, I do have available all the typical audiophile stuff. In fact , in my area there's an online store that offers such wares. They are called " parts connection " . They have a pretty extensive list of all the reported "good stuff". But alas, since I consider my explorations in the sonic signatures of capacitors to be akin to one of the "student" - well, my student type budget doesn't allow me to comfortably shop at their premises.

    If you have a huge quantity of these caps to move , I'd suggest you contact the owners of online stores like MadiSound or Parts Express who are interested in providing cost effective solutions for the audio community .

    Thanks <. Earl K

  3. #33
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    Originally posted by Earl K
    The class A biasing of the capacitors is really the best thing I've heard in a long, long time.
    You didn't seem too excited about the prospect at first so I'm glad you tested it out

    What I would like to bias now is a 4-way 43xx series system

  4. #34
    PSS AUDIO
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    Re: SCR capacitors

    Originally posted by Earl K
    They are called " parts connection " .
    Earl,

    Do you mean that they sell a 1,5MF 200V polypropylene capacitor at 23$?

    The one we have from SCR, is in fact smaller as it is only 24mm long for 11mm in diameter.

    But the price is by far more lower! Selling it back 5 € and we can offer you a bottle of Champaign with each order…

    The smallest cap we have is 1MF, the biggest one is 47MF.

  5. #35
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    Parts Pricing

    Hi Yuri

    Do you mean that they sell a 1,5MF 200V polypropylene capacitor at 23$?
    Yes, that price seems about right for one of the upper-end caps they offer. I'm not sure which manufacturer you're quoting. If you check other online stores you'll see that those prices are inline or "competitive".

    The smallest cap we have is 1MF, the biggest one is 47MF.
    That's good to know. Thanks !

    < Earl K

  6. #36
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    Thumbs up Exicted ?

    Hi Giskard

    You didn't seem too excited about the prospect at first so I'm glad you tested it out
    Well, that's not the impression I intended. It's just that I haven't been accused of being quick in my explorations - maybe methodical - but not quick . Hence my earlier glacier reference ( among its' other uses ).

    Also , my found "excitement" over the biasing concept is its' ability to easily incorporate/blend - and therefore audition dielectric sonic signatures . Right now "Filtering" in a broad sense of the word is an interest.

    Parralleled AB mode capacitor testing was way beyond even my patience level . It was beyond the allocated project time to determine the most significant contributors to the audible timing errors I was creating . The many combination of paralleled caps was great at creating multiple types of grain or top end hash. Hence my fairly quick exit from that project and entrance to the biased type system. The biased system seems to remove a lot of these concerns ( with combining big value stuff ).

    What I would like to bias now is a 4-way 43xx series system
    I guess I would also if I had such a system and I wasn't already biamping/multiamping. Though I'd be interested in taking on the challenge just to see if there's a gain in homogeny from using one extraordinary sounding amp with a charge-coupled network utilyzing experience-chosen LC components . Unfortunately/Fortunately none of the necessary elements exist right now to pursue that thought.

    regards <. Earl K
    Last edited by Earl K; 09-19-2003 at 02:52 PM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    This weekend I'll run some more tests on IT..if you are interested?

    I'm sure the FFT phase plot from the acoustic drive on axis from the 4345 configuration would be worth a look.

    I was also going to run some test on the actual network to see how they compare the the spice simulations..maybe on Sunday I will be able to post the results.

    Back to The Eagles Hell Freezes over a few beers.

    Ian

    My favourite soldering is BIG networks, here are the 3135 chokes just before being mailed to your shores for Kent English of Passlabs in Foresthill County.
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  8. #38
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    Hey Bo

    When I set up my charge coupled 4435 compensation network I had a phase issue. I guess the 2 caps in series is a 180 shift so I had a dip in the 900hz and up band to just above the crossover point. Wasn't there with just the single 2.5uf cap. So a simple phase reversal and all was well. It had me chasing my tail because this was the first time I used the complete network and I thought I had miss-wired them. What a great network that is. After messing with my half baked creations these were a pleasure to install.

    Rob

  9. #39
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    My idea of a phase plot did not work out, just a whole lot of zigzag lines.

    Anyway here is a rough response curve of the jigged baffle.

    Ian

    Ps It sounds miles better than it looks.....
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    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 09-22-2003 at 02:42 AM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Heres my pizza crossover, my first attempt on the day I launched the original project with the assistance some friends from the Melbourne Audio Club

    Yes we celebrated with some red wine and I'm not the guy in the red check shirt......the other sober bloke....Muhahahahah)

    Ian
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  11. #41
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Another angle, although this probably belongs in the 4345 plans thread, Bo may wish to relocate this.

    I recall it actually sound pretty good even to start off with, the focus was the box construction at the time and using all the spare parts I had lying around the house.

    The crossover was text book initially and some tweeking later with IMP it was close the a ruler +- 4db, the 2397 is remarkable smooth. The capacitors where cheap metalised polypropolyene, they seemed to tame the Phase Linear 400 on mids and highs!!

    Since then there has been a certain amount of evolution & refinement, the JBL 2344, the JBL 2122 thanks to Rob and reduction of volume and replacement of polyester with fibre glass and re tuning per 4345 and original 4345 drivers (courtesy of GT and you Fab guys on the Forum)


    Ian
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    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 09-22-2003 at 03:03 AM.

  12. #42
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    Nice photos Ian!

    Got my mylars up and running. Did it on the cheap from Madisound. Got some Carli Mylars and some of the GE Poly's which are very large!! compared to the Solens. I have them set-up charge coupled and they sound great!

    Rob

  13. #43
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    Exclamation Speaking of Size

    Hi All

    Re; about furthering my education on capacitors.

    (i) Which type of capacitor construction methodology came first: "Film & Foil" or "Metallized Film" ?
    (ii) Does a "Film & Foil" type result in a bulkier capacitor compared to "Metallized Film" for equal capacitance ?
    (iii) Re; metallizing a film - is this a process that was developed for the purposes of cost cutting &/or for the shrinking of components ?
    (iv) Does the separate layering of film & foil imply more consistent dielectric properties compared to metallized film ?
    (v) Is a Polystyrene type always a film & foil ? or can a polystyrene film be metallized ?
    (vi) If a person happens upon an unknown make of polypropylene capacitor that seems inordinately large for its' uf value , then should one be assuming that it's construction method is of "Film & Foil " ?
    (vii) Where does Polycarbonate film as a dielectric type fit into the quality matrix ?

    Thanks < .Earl K
    Last edited by Earl K; 09-30-2003 at 05:50 AM.

  14. #44
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    Thumbs up

    Hi Robh


    Are you mixing & matching different capacitor types together in your charge coupled networks ? If so , in what manner ?

    Have you auditioned those 2 types separately - and been able to determine any sonic signatures between the two class types ?

    I've been doing that for about a week now and will be posting my thoughts sometime this week regarding what I've heard .

    regards <.Earl K

  15. #45
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Earl

    I am using the 4435 network with my 2344's so the only caps I have at all in the system is the compensation cap a single 2.5uf or 2 5uf in parralel . The rest is active. Using Charge Coupling in a full passive set-up I would expect would be much easier to evaluate. I certainly did not expect any drastic changes and figured they would be subtle at best.

    I have tried 3 types. Solens straight up no bypass, Solens C Coupled, and now Mylar with a .33 and .01 Poly bypass C Coupled. The bypass caps are the GE type and a Parts Express .01 Audio Grade bypass. I have not tried different ratios except for what would be considered bypass caps. I have Axons in my Center and wonder if they are just Solens rebranded. Never know who the real manufacturer is once they are "custom branded". I am looking for Polystyrenes to use in place of the .01's can't seem to find them.

    Sonics well take this with a grain of salt. I usually don't get into this kind of detail as it is so subjective, really should do some blind evals like DBT's to remove bias, but here goes.

    The Solens straight up are what I have always used. So I am used to them from the get go. That said I would hear some harshness and edginess and would just figure it was there. When I charge coupled them, with no bypass, things seemed to change a bit. Not as harsh which is not really the right word. Hard to describe and things seemed to open up. The real change was the Charge Coupled Mylars. Things just got better. More open the clarity seemed to increase. Many times smoother means less or rolled off highs. Not with this smoother with no loss of high frequency response and more detail to boot which is usually what you seem to loose with the highs rolled off. A win win all around. When I get some spair cash I will try a couple of Auracaps but I am very happy with this as it stands now. Looking forward to your comments.

    Rob

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