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Thread: Discussion Thread JBL 4343 to 4344 upgrade

  1. #136
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Upgrade 9 – Discussion on modern drivers.

    1. Modern driver choices available today

    2. Use of a subwoofer.

    1.Modern driver choices available today

    Well modern driver choices comes down to availability, cost and skill of the builder / designer to come up with a crossover network that will ensure the drivers work correctly together. This has previously been a stumbling block for Forum Members who have attempted to use more recently developed JBL transducers only to be frustrated with their attempts at arranging a successful crossover network.


    We therefore suggest and in keeping with the 4344 design criteria that members looking for a taste of newer technology look at cloning or modifying their 4343 to the JBL 4344mk11. Details of the 4344mk11 crossover network are available for interested members. The mid range driver used is the 2123H.

    With the exception of the woofer and HF driver the components are available.



    Woofer and Hf driver alternatives.

    The suggested work around for the woofer is to recone the 2235H woofer as a 2234 with a 2234 recone kit and apply some LF Eq boost. This will provide sensitivity of around 95 db and an extended cutoff per the 4344 series. The 2234H has a lighter Mms and is the preferred woofer over the 2235H by some JBL engineers.

    The 275Nd compression driver is NLA. However I understand the 275 diaphragm is still available and it will fit the 2420 driver.

    The enclosure is identical to the former 4344.

    Other more daring members may look to using an alternative horn like the PT wave guides or a mini 2397. Again, you will need to fiddle with the crossover network to obtain the desired performance.


    4348 Drivers
    Edit Note: As advised by Earl:

    From the look of it, JBL is now starting to take orders for these SOTA parts.
    ( BTW ; these are 3 of the 4 parts for the 4348 4-way ) The 2251j is already available from JBL Pro .
    - It seems the ME150H is no more , but is being replaced by the 1500Fe, for the DIYer. ( This is excellent pricing BTW ) .

    So here is another opportunity to take up nre technology.



    2. Subwoofers.

    Unless you are a home theatre buff or have unusual room acoustics a sub woofer is not required nor desirable with this system for music reproduction.

    Sub woofers are fun but difficult to integrate successfully for full range music reproduction. Such is the case that many people end up turning the sub off after the initial enthusiasm as worn off.

    The JBL 1500 sub woofer driver has been very popular among members.

    There are numerous threads on the forums that discuss the 1500.
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  2. #137
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Upgrade 10 – Other Upgrades.

    1. External Horns

    2. 4345

    3. Other upgrades

    1. External Horns

    Some members have taken to using external horns for the JBL home speakers.

    Its an easy way of playing around with alternatives.

    One popular horn that comes to mind is the 2397. This horn however works best with a large format compression driver like the 2440/2441/2445/2446.

    On issue with using external horns however is the vertical height of the external horn above the other drivers and the listeners ears when sitting atop the enclosure.

    The 4343 enclosure is designed such that when seated the HF horn and Slot radiator are at the correct height. In this instance the external horn will need to be tilted forward if practical to ensure adequate vertical coverage angle although this may compromise other aspects of the system preformance.

    Some adjustment of the crossover maybe required to attain the best results.

    2. 4345

    There a a couple of extensive threads on this monitor, essentially an 18 inch woofer version of the 4344.

    The enclosure is significantly larger than the 4344 but the system is an interesting candidate for those seeking effortless bass!

    3.Other upgrades

    I know of one member who claims to have improved the perfomance of the horn by wrapping a sound absorbant layer of damping material around the 2307 horn. The intent being to damp any resonances within the aluminium casting.

    Other members have resorted to sand boxes and concrete slabs under their systems where floor coupling may effect the quality of bass reproduction.

  3. #138
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Well that's about it from me.

    As I mentioned earlier I don't like loose ends and revisited the Lansing Heritage Forums especially to complete this project thread.

    Please send me Pms for any questions or ideas you may have and I will do my best to answer them in a timely manner. I will also look into the class A active crossover and get back to those who are interested.

    I will be doodling over on diyaudio.com building a class A plate amp if anyone wants to come and say hello.

    The New Doctor

  4. #139
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Probably a good idea to cover setting up:

    1. Setting the L Pads- I'm not going to repeat myself ..this is critical and you need some if only basic test equipment. Can't be done poperly with your ears.

    When this is done the system should perform as one driver.

    Somewhere there is a thread in which I outlined a simple proceedure..it works.

    2. Placement - Also critical for best performance. The slot radiator must be at ear level. If your ear height is a little bit lower or higher the cabinet can be titled slightly with some packing.

    The enclosures must be arranged in exact symmetry within the room.

    They should be toe'd in about 10-15 degees (no more). The slot radiators should be on the outside.

    When this is done correctly the system will reveal precise stereo imaging and front to back depth.

    Anyone who can't get this to happen should buy a Walkman, sell their 4343-4344 to forget about it.

    The limiting factor will be the room, the source and amplification.

    3. Equalization- This is not absolutely necessary if the above steps are executed correctly.

    Even the best equaliser will add noise and distortion to your enhanced 4343-4344. If you believe you need an equalised response attempt to correct the issue with placement and or room treatment. Seek professional advise of you have a particular room issue.

    There is no snake oil or hidden mirrors regards setup. But setup has an influence of about 30- 50% of the subjective performance, the other 50-70 % is what the room does to the sound.

    I have professionally heard the system in the worst and the best acoustic environment. On a scale of 100 the difference was 1 versus 100.

    I spent an hour today performing the about steps and the results are outstanding.

    On high quality recordings the sound stage as such does not exist, instruments and voices just appear as individual objects in space and are easily differentiated.

    Of course the best amplifiers, active crossover and source you can afford will add the ultimate refinement in musical satisfaction.

    Enjoy.

  5. #140
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  6. #141
    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    Ian's advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Probably a good idea to cover setting up:

    ...They should be toe'd in about 10-15 degees (no more). The slot radiators should be on the "outside".

    When this is done correctly the system will reveal precise stereo imaging and front to back depth. ...
    Ian had asked me if removing the 4343 nameplates made any difference in the UHF sound. It does! I hear more from the 2405 slot and I'm sure the patten is also improved by getting the nameplate out of the way. I'm going to drastically shorten the nameplates and mount them in the center to allow all the UHF to come out uninterupted.
    Though Ian had mentioned placing the 2405s on the outside of the cabinets to me before, it wasn't until today that I went down and switched my 4343s, placing the slots at the outside position of the speakers.
    I had a listen and I was impressed! The improvement was not subtle! Not only did the placement of the instruments become more clearly defined, but I heard top detail that I hadn't noticed quite the same way before...and this is with music I play regularly and am very familiar with. Though it seems counter-intuitive, I feel Ian was right when he explained how those slots need to be on the outside to blend with the other drivers correctly.
    Thanks Ian, again, for your insight.
    I wonder if JBL ever explained that, or any of what we are learning about setting up and tweaking our 434X speakers. ?

    Tom

  7. #142
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Loizeaux
    Ian had asked me if removing the 4343 nameplates made any difference in the UHF sound. It does! I hear more from the 2405 slot and I'm sure the patten is also improved by getting the nameplate out of the way. I'm going to drastically shorten the nameplates and mount them in the center to allow all the UHF to come out uninterupted.
    Though Ian had mentioned placing the 2405s on the outside of the cabinets to me before, it wasn't until today that I went down and switched my 4343s, placing the slots at the outside position of the speakers.
    I had a listen and I was impressed! The improvement was not subtle! Not only did the placement of the instruments become more clearly defined, but I heard top detail that I hadn't noticed quite the same way before...and this is with music I play regularly and am very familiar with. Though it seems counter-intuitive, I feel Ian was right when he explained how those slots need to be on the outside to blend with the other drivers correctly.
    Thanks Ian, again, for your insight.
    I wonder if JBL ever explained that, or any of what we are learning about setting up and tweaking our 434X speakers. ?

    Tom
    Tom,

    Perhaps JBL should issue a 4343 Manual!

  8. #143
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Inide out

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Loizeaux
    Though Ian had mentioned placing the 2405s on the outside of the cabinets to me before, it wasn't until today that I went down and switched my 4343s, placing the slots at the outside position of the speakers.
    I had a listen and I was impressed! The improvement was not subtle! Not only did the placement of the instruments become more clearly defined, but I heard top detail that I hadn't noticed quite the same way before...and this is with music I play regularly and am very familiar with.
    Tom
    Hi folks.

    I did exactly the same thing as Tom yesterday, and agree that there was a great difference! In all the years I have had large studio monitors I have always placed them with the 2405's on the inside, as I have been thinking having them on the outside would make a lot more unwanted reflections from walls and other stuff in the living room. I was wrong! .. Or do they need reflections to sound better?...Naaa?

    Regarding the 10 to 15 degrees, I have always had mine i 12.5 with the listening position a little longer away than the distance between the speakers.

    Yesterday I also (WITH MY EARS) adjusted the L-Pads, and the sound is no much more focused. The singer/instuments are now in the same position...not "lurking around" as Ian talked about. I will however use an RTA and "see" how my ears are.

    Rolf
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  9. #144
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Loizeaux
    Ian had asked me if removing the 4343 nameplates made any difference in the UHF sound. It does! I hear more from the 2405 slot and I'm sure the patten is also improved by getting the nameplate out of the way. I'm going to drastically shorten the nameplates and mount them in the center to allow all the UHF to come out uninterupted.
    Though Ian had mentioned placing the 2405s on the outside of the cabinets to me before, it wasn't until today that I went down and switched my 4343s, placing the slots at the outside position of the speakers.
    I had a listen and I was impressed! The improvement was not subtle! Not only did the placement of the instruments become more clearly defined, but I heard top detail that I hadn't noticed quite the same way before...and this is with music I play regularly and am very familiar with. Though it seems counter-intuitive, I feel Ian was right when he explained how those slots need to be on the outside to blend with the other drivers correctly.
    Thanks Ian, again, for your insight.
    I wonder if JBL ever explained that, or any of what we are learning about setting up and tweaking our 434X speakers. ?

    Tom
    see instruction 4344 mkII too

    page 8 " position" (see pict)


    :cheers
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  10. #145
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf
    Hi folks.

    I did exactly the same thing as Tom yesterday, and agree that there was a great difference! In all the years I have had large studio monitors I have always placed them with the 2405's on the inside, as I have been thinking having them on the outside would make a lot more unwanted reflections from walls and other stuff in the living room. I was wrong! .. Or do they need reflections to sound better?...Naaa?

    Regarding the 10 to 15 degrees, I have always had mine i 12.5 with the listening position a little longer away than the distance between the speakers.

    Yesterday I also (WITH MY EARS) adjusted the L-Pads, and the sound is no much more focused. The singer/instuments are now in the same position...not "lurking around" as Ian talked about. I will however use an RTA and "see" how my ears are.

    Rolf
    Rolf,

    Glad to hear about the improvements..enjoy.

    Perhaps this step should be the 1st step before any updates!

    Alas who ever reads manuals.

    regards

    Ian

    Just think this improvement didn't cost you a cent.

  11. #146
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Alas who ever reads manuals.

    regards

    Ian

    Just think this improvement didn't cost you a cent.
    Hi Ian.

    In the manuals delivered with the speakers I have had over the years there have NEVER been a word of placement. ...... Anyway, I can't remember any, and I do read manuals....

    Rolf
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  12. #147
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf
    Hi Ian.

    In the manuals delivered with the speakers I have had over the years there have NEVER been a word of placement. ...... Anyway, I can't remember any, and I do read manuals....

    Rolf
    I think we should write our own manual.

    Ian

  13. #148
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Be nice and people is nice to you.

    Rolf,
    I think that quote rightfully belongs to another member..

    Now let me see who that could be ........Steve G

    ......You should never steal what does not belong to you
    Sorry all. I did not know anybody was using it. I made up another one, hope nobody uses that.

    Rolf
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  14. #149
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Its was an in - joke.

    Us the serach function and you'll see why

    Ian

  15. #150
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Its was an in - joke.

    Us the serach function and you'll see why

    Ian
    Ok, search for what???

    Rolf
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

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