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Thread: Discussion Thread JBL 4343 to 4344 upgrade

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Discussion Thread JBL 4343 to 4344 upgrade

    This thread is dedicated to discussion, (questions, feedback, opinions) of all aspect of the project involving the project design and description thread.

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    This thread is now open for discussion.
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    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    With respect to the photo above - What a mess!

    Common guys, I know you all can come up with a better baffle layout than that!

    Apply everything we've gone over on this forum the past five years and build something killer.

    I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Hi, Ian.

    Can you start out with a basic description of the two systems, please, and why one might want to upgrade?

    I don't know a 4344 from a hole in the ground.

    [OR a 4343 from either, for that matter.... ]

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    Hi, Ian.

    Can you start out with a basic description of the two systems, please?

    I don't know a 4344 from a hole in the ground....
    We've gone over it numerous times... what a waste of my time THAT obviously ended up being...

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    We've gone over it numerous times... what a waste of my time THAT obviously ended up being...
    Naw, so much the easier, then: Ian can LINK us there!

    [An introductory overview would be helpful, is all....]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    With respect to the photo above - What a mess!

    Common guys, I know you all can come up with a better baffle layout than that!

    Apply everything we've gone over on this forum the past five years and build something killer.

    I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
    Definitely food for thought. I wonder why the 077's are so stinking close to the lenses. You'd think that there might be some interaction between the two, giving the 110 degree dispersion. I might have spaced it out at least a few inches or better yet, put it on top like the L-300.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Here's my idea of an improved layout. Ports in back, drivers in line and offset on the panel mirror imaged. No equal spacing between a driver and a sidewalls. No protruding edges where the grill would mount. The 077 and Lense were kept side by side. The serpentine lense has the same patern for less depth and is low enough that I don't think it interferes with the 077. I think it's look better too.

    Rob
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    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    We've gone over it numerous times... what a waste of my time THAT obviously ended up being...


    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    !
    Apply everything we've gone over on this forum the past five years and build something killer.

    I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
    maybe we should look at something like this idea instead...
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    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Ian, I hope you keep the 2121 in place. Ripping out nice cones and replace with 2122 kits is not everyones thing.
    BLS Reference on Passlabs XA 30.5 + Everest DD66000 clone on Pass XA 100.5

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    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    I think we should remember that the 4343 was designed for mixdown studios and, though it could be used vertically, was primarily made to hang horizontally above the board! The baffle layout was made rotatable to allow these orientation options and was probably compromised slightly due to this. The 4344 didn't have these requirements. Also, the 4344 came a bit after the 4343, so any new technical understanding could have influenced the subtle changes (or refinements). Some of these new understandings were seen in driver and crossover improvements.
    Though I don't hear any significant defficiencies in my 4343s, I have thought about how I might improve things if I were to build an updated pair.
    I think I would basically go for the 4344, but would have to consider other questions...like the idea of using a pair of woofers in each cabinet to improve and tighten the low end. I suspect the 2123H would be a stronger mid driver. Maybe a wood horn, or even going to a 1.5 or 2" throat and a 4" diaphragmed driver... maybe even the TAD 4001...? (I suspect the 2405s would stay though)
    Ah, see how it all grows?
    Maybe simply rebuilding my crossovers for the mid/high/UHF sections in my 4343s would really be enough. ?

    This is why I look forward to the development of this thread!

    Tom

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    With respect to the photo above - What a mess!

    Common guys, I know you all can come up with a better baffle layout than that!

    Apply everything we've gone over on this forum the past five years and build something killer.

    I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
    I see you are the one who desires the modifications thread.....

    That picture was sent some time ago to me by Rob.....yes he is responsible...Lol

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    Hi, Ian.

    Can you start out with a basic description of the two systems, please, and why one might want to upgrade?

    I don't know a 4344 from a hole in the ground.

    [OR a 4343 from either, for that matter.... ]
    Okay,

    I suppose we are appealing to existing owners, or those who have traded their 4343 and after reading the forthcoming wish they hadn't.

    The Library has ample information on the 4343, and the JBL system guide has details of the drivers of the respective systems. We will compare the two systems and then discuss the various upgrade steps.

    I have not literally had a 4343 and 4344 side by side, but I can say the updates not all of which have been made public yet in a "condensed engineering format" do impart refinement and improvement over the 4343.

    In the development of the project we also discovered that despite popular opinion bi amping will not necessarily provide improved Hi Fidelity.
    What we do here will be the icing on the Cake among other special fgoodies that will be rolled out in the project.

    A system only works as well as the sum of its parts and we will discuss how a total system can perform beyond your wildest dreams!

    Ian

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regis
    Definitely food for thought. I wonder why the 077's are so stinking close to the lenses. You'd think that there might be some interaction between the two, giving the 110 degree dispersion. I might have spaced it out at least a few inches or better yet, put it on top like the L-300.
    Interesting observation.

    While measuring the system I found the lense has a dispersion of around 80 degrees, the published polar pattern illustrates this. Looking at the system with correct orientation there is a clear line of site to the slot opening. I will publish if you like measurements of the slot with/without the lense.

    I tend to think the two devices work well together "when" adjusted correctly.
    The mirror imagine pairs with the slot on the outside does have a significant impact on the imaging. At the crossover wavelength both should be as close together as possible.

    Ian

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    Here's my idea of an improved layout. Ports in back, drivers in line and offset on the panel mirror imaged. No equal spacing between a driver and a sidewalls. No protruding edges where the grill would mount. The 077 and Lense were kept side by side. The serpentine lense has the same patern for less depth and is low enough that I don't think it interferes with the 077. I think it's look better too.

    Rob
    Rob your being a show off but I like it...I know you can take that as a joke.

    Well we will talk about a new upper baffle, all the stuff's got to fit somewhere.

    The important thing is the offset and non equidistant path lengths.

    We had not considering re building new enclosures but I suppose that would fall within scope if those daring enough saw fit to rebuild their 4343 or clone a 4344.

    So this will become a real hands on project where members can apply their skills and share ideas., not a chat session.

    Ian

    Ian

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