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Thread: Amp for bass driver

  1. #16
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    May 2003
    Northern California

    Early Crown

    Yeah--those were the ones I meant. I'm not familiar with the Series II amps.


  2. #17
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Apr 2003
    Brooklyn NY

    Re: Early Crown

    Originally posted by speakerdave
    Yeah--those were the ones I meant. I'm not familiar with the Series II amps.

    I say this because when Crown introduced the black face series II run of the legendary D series amplifiers they neglected to tell us that they had switched to a different output transistor! And because of this switch the D series amps never had the same amount of steam their predecessors were known for. You run a series II against a white face w/IOC indicators 79 vintage DC-300A and you willl see the black face doesnt have the same BALLS as the older generation! YOU CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE!

    All the years I ran DC-300A,s on my Altec 421-8LF,s and a Crown D-150A on six JBL 2395 lens horns with 2441 drivers! very good sound indeed!

    I honestly couldnt see anyone being unhappy with these running JBL,s !

    BUT, I still like McIntosh for its musical sound in the high frequencys!
    Last edited by scott fitlin; 08-27-2003 at 11:21 PM.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Apr 2003
    The Tardis
    Regards the biamp amp issue as you are running bia- amp active there is also the the power split ratio to consider and this will ultimatly limit your available headroom.

    To explain this concept the bi amp crossover point in the 4344 is about 50/50% power split on normal program material for each amp. The rated sensitivity is 95 db for the system and as you are using 10 watts for the mid/high amp we can assume that this will be the limiting factor for dynamic headroom.

    ie 10 watts will give you +10 db gain @ 1 metre = 105 db @ 1 metre.

    Now as you are biamping in this situation we will assume you have normally equally power amps so we can work out the maximum headroom.

    For example we have here 10+10 watts per box.

    The peak voltage (crest factor) is the equivelant of a 40 watt amp.

    Your available dynamic headroom is going to be with 40 watts =
    +16 db @ 1 metre = 111 db @ 1 metre using the 10 watt SET on the mid high drivers and the 10 watt amp for the bass.

    I tend to think your SET will run out of steam before the bass amp bass using the above reasoning, but bear in mind that 111 db is still loud, and that loudness is attenuated 6 db for each doubling of distance back from the speaker not taking into account reverberant conditions of your room.

    If your are keen to use the SET 10 watter and this is a valve amp, I would tend to eye off a nice hifi amp with a tuneful articulate bass and warm lower mids, otherwise the lower mids and bass will tend to sound too cool relative to the presentation of the SET unless you aim high for an expensive big amp which is IMHO unnecessary.

    (I tried this a while ago myself with a Cary SET 7 watter on mids and higher and PA bass amp for the woofer and the mids and top were out of character with the bass, your active xover will also need to be 1st class or you'll loose the SET's virtues)

    If you are are dabbler (diy) and want the ultimate, consider a Pass Aleph 3 30+30 or Aleph 5 60+60 for your bass, they sound midway between a smoothest solid state amp and value amp and are SE.

    Or like many including my self gradually scale up to bigger Alephs like the Aleph 2 100+100 pure class A and there you are in utopia IMHO. Making them is not hard, if you can plug in a soldering iron to the wall your on your way! Bi amping is not really necessary with a big enough class A amp unless you require extreme dynamics, ie you don't need to run the JBLs up loud to makem sound good, the dynamics, precision, imaging and fine detail is there in spades even at modest levels (IMHO).

    Passlabs actually sell to a major JBL dealer and there is a strong synergy with both brands.

    There is an absolute treasure chest of DIY information on how to make your own Aleph now at and a nice gallery of projects at

    Please note I have no alliance with or Passlabs but have built several of their amps and there is no going back.



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    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 08-28-2003 at 12:42 AM.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Doctor_Electron's Avatar
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    May 2003
    California Central Coast, USA
    Sometimes the least obvious option SOUNDS best, while the one perceived (hyperbole, prestige, cost, et al) as best candidate turns out to yield HSD (HammeredSonicDung) with a given set of speakers, physical enviornment, assosiated gear, etc.)
    With my pair of 2235H subs in JBL Pro-spec
    cabs (ducted port, 5 Cu. FT volume, et cetera), the [stunningly IMO] best, most musical amp of many tried was an Old Colony Sound kit designed by Erno Borbeley. Early MOSFET-output design, two channels, 50 Wrms/ch. If you are not familiar with Erno, search @ Google, using this exact search term, including quotation marks:
    "Erno Borbely" +amplifiers
    My little project amp, which I bought off a closeout sale [ca. 1980] in Audio Amateur Mag for $215 total, was when used with the brutish 145 lb. each subs sonically warm, tight, quick, deep-going, and extremely articulate. The first time in 35 years chasing the holy grail of amps that I noticed whatever the bass instrument, EVERY discrete note played was clearlly discernable as what it was ( vs. wall-shaking tubby doses of low-end molasses...made up of mostly farty distorted harmonics).
    Moral: Expect the unexpected, try to avoid preconceptions whatever their basiss, keep an open mind & ears, and TRY EVERYTHING you can beg, borrow, and steal.
    To be continued: "EGAD, what what! The hyperbole IS TRUE!!!"
    A quasi-rambling diatribe, in regardS to Pro Audio amps...and my success story with the Alesis Matica 500 power amplifier. Search for an easily found downloadm of the Matica Amp series' owners manual (usage/installation/tech notes etc.) : "Alesis Matica" +amplifiers
    The Matica 500 IS IMHO the best amp I've heard. Believe it or not.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    "TRY EVERYTHING you can beg, borrow, and steal."

    How true. No amount of bookreading or specification sheet reading can take the place of experience.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Doctor_Electron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    California Central Coast, USA
    A dude where I was working (temp, via a tech job shop) and I were frothing audio freaks and yapped ad infinitum about it. He traded his pair of 4310WX to me four a pair of L-65's. I was (am) always looking for good deals & good gear, so when he said someone he knew had an ESS preamp for sale I got a bit excited as ESS speakers were "hot" at the time, and when I looked up the preamp's price it was quite "spendy"
    I was running a Marantz 7T into a pair of Dyna MKIII's, wasn't totally happy with the tone. (Does this sound familiar & even chronic?) Once again HyperBowled with the sudden ESS intrigue attack,
    I managed through Stan to borrow it over a weekend for a demo.
    The evaluation lasted maybe 10 minutes. I made a note that the unit should be labled P*SS, not ESS, 'cause that's how it sounded. Probably the very worst I've heard, period.
    I don't recall the asking price, but $400 (c.a. 1976) (!) keeps popping up. Had I paid $50 I would have been P*SSED off about the P*SS from ESS. Not even a gig in the garage would that dog have been listenable on.
    And on and on and on it seems to go blah blah blah...

    P.S. I have not "upgraded" my preamp/power amp setup nor degraded its sonix since 1996. But hey, you never know!
    ( Advent 300 preamp section, Alesis Professional Matica 500 Dual-Channel power amp)
    Alesis Matica 500 / 900 owners' manual:

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