I will add "euphonic" and "organic" to the listening lexicon here.
I will add "euphonic" and "organic" to the listening lexicon here.
Means zilch to me and to him i'm sure, for such vacuous, needlessly vindictive comments..guy's unable to find anything positive to contribute, apparently.
Really? Even for what? I wasn't keeping score.
Anything of any real content to contribute for a change?
The inane rhetoric is amusing, of course, but surely you can't expect your characterization of 4430's, a forum favorite, as "ridiculous" not to offend SOMEONE's sensibilities here....
Hmm. I've never heard any mushiness or lack of articulation in the bass of big Tannoy studio monitors (15DMT II) or home speakers (D700, TD12). Quite the opposite: I thought the bass focus was spectacular. However, some of their pro monitors don't have the raw extension of JBL's in well-designed cabs. For example, I recently bought a pair of Tannoy CPA-12 stage monitors, which use a variant of the 12DMT's 12" Dual called the 3134. (They're not here yet, so all I can go by is computer models.) My intentions are to adapt the drivers to a home audio system. According to the T/S specs e-mailed me by someone at Tannoy NA, they've got perfect bass extension for HT or in a sat/sub type system (F3 of ~80Hz in a Bessel sealed enclosure) but anyone who thinks that it is usable as a full-range monitor is deluding themselves as even large ported enclosures have F3's of well above 50Hz.Originally Posted by analogbass
That said, there really something is special about big JBL woofers (or at least relatively high-Qms and low-inductance woofers in general) and for my own tastes I've not found anything I like better than a Tannoy Dual on top of a JBL woofer. I've been experimenting with the Tannoy/JBL hybrid approach (Tannoy 2046, which is the 8" dual used in the System 800 studio monitor and a few other speakers, with JBL 2235H) and though my crossover is pretty unrefined up to this point it's instantly obvious even with a single speaker playing in mono that the approach has HUGE merit. Hopefully when the CPA-12's get here I'll move the 2046's into home theater duty and find that it's an even better match to the 2235H....
That reminds me, I need to drive down to Marietta and pick up my other 2235H from Gordon ASAP....
This is really very interesting and echoes a comment dropped in passing here a while back by one of our staunchest JBL loyalists (who shall remain unnamed).
David
I'd like to try something like that.
I have no experience on what happens in combining two dispirate components together, how predictable the outcome is. Probably just trial and error, and should be interesting if not too expensive to experiment with. Anything you can share on what to expect on experimenting with different components..?
I've heard others mention the same thing about Tannoy; a pro musician friend referring to it as "false" bottom that is more pronounced on the larger drivers. What can i say, i listen to a lot of bass-heavy music; Tannoy low frequency is more pronounced but the sound itself doesn't quite hit the spot. Notice that you want to use the JBL components for low end, so apparently you agree. JBL low end just kicks ass better than anything else.
I had a pair of Tannoy Berkley's with HPD-385A drivers some years ago now, they are a very fine speaker with good imaging although I agree the bass was a little lacking and power handling was low at 80 Watts, I should have had the HPD-385A loaded into the larger Arden cabinets in hindsight for lower bass response. I also ran the HPD-385's bi-amped with a 12dB/octave Linkwitz Rieley filter which seemed to clean up the mids as well. Then I updated to 4430'sand have never looked back and in 1 week I should have my 4435's
yippee !!
It's really not difficult at all. If you have a good speaker modeling program such as LEAP, Soundeasy, or lspCAD you can model the results with a very high degree of predictibility. There's nothing magical about a brand name, and neither drive-unit has odd behavior in the region you'd be likely to cross them over that will throw off the sonic signature of the whole system. I'm going passive - for now - which is more work and less flexibility but allows you to use a single amp channel per speaker. However, if you bi-amp and use something like a Behringer DCX2496 it's basically a plug-and-(measure, and listen, and repeat)-play process.
Another way to look at it is that a modern 8-12" Dual + 2235H is under $750 in drive units that come on the market fairly often, whereas a 15" Dual is both rarer and dearer. Also, in my experience Duals sound their best when they to move as little as possible. At high woofer excursions, the treble gets muddy. So a smaller Dual with a helper woofer just makes more sense to me.
While I've been a big Tannoy fan for years, I fell into the JBL thing more or less by accident. I don't have a pro audio background and most of the readily-available home speakers JBL has sold since in the last decade have been lame; the only good JBL speaker I'd heard before last summer was a coincident 6.5" driver their car audio division made in the 1990s. Then I saw a JBL quote-unquote subwoofer using two 2035H woofers lidyrf on Craigslist, and a 15" woofer with an inductance of only 0.25mH with a 7mm xmax caught my attention. Those wouldn't have worked with my plans without heavy EQ, but then I started to look at other JBL woofers. When someone I trust (Gordon Waters, a contributor here) posted that he had a newly reconed 2235H for sale somewhere, maybe at the Madisound or Parts Express fora, I paid more attention to that model. I ran the numbers, found that on paper it would be great for my project. So I snapped it up and here I am....
What series replaced the Saturn series?
I have Tannoy Monitor Gold 15" Alnico and I had the Gauss checked. Of 3 drives all of them had lost half of the magnet force. My 2241 was perfect 1,82T and 1.79T. So when you compare old drivers, maybe they are not perfect to begin with.
Officially, it was the Sensys series. But, the Sensys models are all smaller than the Saturn 8 and 10. The largest Sensys model is a 7" dual-concentric with a 7" woofer and a supertweeter, and is about $300 less per pair than the Saturn 8 ($1300 instead of $1600 for a pair).
There were a lot of us that kinda just scratched our heads, when Tannoy deleted the Saturn series. Way huge value for the money. Nothing in the consumer market I know of, of at or less than $2000 a pair, that could TOUCH a pair of Saturn 10s in their combination of sheer "whomp", bass definition and smoothness, pin-point imaging (from a WIDE variety of seating positions!), and just plain natural-sounding mids.
Though, that said, while the new Tannoy Eyris DC3 is somewhat smaller (7" woofers) and more expensive ($2700/pr) than the Saturn 10... I will say this: Of the speakers that we carry here at the store (and in fact, of any speaker under about $4000 a pair I've heard in quite a while), I'd take a pair of Eyris DC3s home with me, before anything else. They're just a remarkable combination of PROPERLY dynamic, PROPERLY flat and balanced, with unflappable bottom end (on virtually any amp, and I've tested them on a vast variety!), and amazing imaging/soundstaging in all 3 dimensions. It's just plain high-performance...
But, the idea of a Tannoy DC-style driver over a subwoofer, is something I've already done. I built a custom set of speakers with the driver from a Dimension TDC (8"), and a shorting-ring-equipped 12" woofer, with the woofer active-ampified. Simply the best thing I've heard, all respects of loudspeakers taken in toto. I'm currently building another version, with an 8" coax/DC driver, dual 10" woofers and triple 10" passive radiators...
Regards,
Gordon.
This is an extremely good point. Tannoy drivers should have a very-well-defined bottom end... maybe not as much "whomp" as a typical JBL cabinet, but usually, better "control" in the upper bass, and flatter response down to rolloff (none of the usual JBL "bass bump" around 40 Hz or so).
Regards,
Gordon.
I was confused as well.
Ok, I'll look into them.
Yeah, a few years back I sold my last pair of 124H subs that went with a complete 5-channel Saturn setup and I'm still getting kudos from it. I'm considering a similar setup for my own personal use in a new room I'm working on.
Have you worked with the iw6 TDC or iw62 TDC at all?
Thanks for the post Gordon!
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