i have been reading info on the forum for several months.thanks to one and all for all the wonderful info i have been trying to take in. about a month ago i bought a pair of little used 4412's. the 12's are being refoamed and then they should be ready to go. one note of intrest to me was that one of the control display facing areas still has its plastic seal from the factory on it. aside from the refoam issue about four of the plastic grill posts are broken on the pair and that is it. i am open to all thoughts on these from any and all here,thanks to one and all........