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Thread: 4345/4343 level positions

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    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    4345/4343 level positions

    I am interested in any experiences and feedback regards setting up the levels of the mid, high, Uhf levels for the 4345.

    Actually, i a proud owner could share the manual recommendations, that would be nice.

    There appear to be a broad range of settings and it appears to be almost the taste thing.

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 08-21-2003 at 12:25 PM.

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    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    Starting with the additude that I knew more about how these JBL monitors should be balanced than the guys at JBL, I've tried a variety of settings over many months, working to meet my mood of that day, but have found that after enough time and variety of settings, I seemed to get the level controls for the mids and highs very near mid (12 o'clock) position on my passive monitor speakers!
    When I run my monitors in bi-amp mode I turn all the mid and high pots up full because their's no reason to burn off power coming rom the high frequency amp. I then balance the mids and highs by setting the power amp levels.
    I've read that these level controls were included to adjust these speakers to variations in the type of rooms...and I believe that is correct. The adjustments from mid position should probably be subtle.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Loizeaux; 08-22-2003 at 05:59 PM.

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    Smile

    Tom:

    about "additude", add 3dB a day, by the end of the month, You'll have +90dB, sell Your expensive amps and get some 1watt units.

    Sorry, the devil made me do it.

    Alex.

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    Junior Member IDF's Avatar
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    I am interested in any experiences and feedback regards setting up the levels of the mid, high, Uhf levels for the 4345.


    Hi Ian,

    I have no experience with 4345s but 4343s..(Passive operation) I hope that could help.
    In my room, the better levels settings are 12 o’clock for the mid, +/- 9 o’clock for the high and up full for the UHF.
    I h»ve A/Bed them with various quality headphones. They sounds like crystal.
    I noticed that the distance between the back and the rear wall was critical..

    "Actually, i a proud owner could share the manual recommendations, that would be nice".

    I do not belive that JBL ever gave recommendations on these settings as every single case is a particular one.

    Regards
    Last edited by IDF; 08-22-2003 at 03:41 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Tom, Alex & IDF,

    Thanks for all your input,

    I appreciate your response and I tend to agree it takes time and a variety of program material sources to sort out the levels.

    Indeed rooms play a big part, but I am finding that the peak free response of the 4345 configuration is such that one can set up the system for a particular "Mood or Presentation" where the sound stage can be brought forward and with it the imaging, or one a soften the delivery and make the sound stage more distant.

    The system also appears ruthlessly accurate, and the manner in which say DTS, 5.10 and a classical CD are mastered is immediately obvious, (even more so than the 2344) so adjusting the level controls does take a fair bit of digestion overall.

    This image is courtesy of Bo

    Ian
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    Junior Member IDF's Avatar
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    Ian

    The settings on the picture you attached are the best if you are lucky enough to have good room acoustics. They were mine when I lived at the country in a large house. Hope I will vacate soon

    Good luck for your own settings.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    IDF,

    Yeah, I just tried this and it appears good, thanks for the tip.

    (My 2420/ 8 ohm ti diaphrapms are also 8 ohms like Robs so I also have to attenuate an extra 3 dba)

    Over the weekend I will run some tests with the PC analyser using MLS to see what it looks like.

    But given the rather less reverberant power response of the 2307/2308 compared the the 2344 (which I am more used to) this will in effect mean more attenuation for on axis listening as they tend to push a more direct sound.

    Such is a the price of on axis accuracy.

    Thanks again for your help

    Ian


  8. #8
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    "The system also appears ruthlessly accurate, and the manner in which say DTS, 5.10 and a classical CD are mastered is immediately obvious"

    That is a fact.
    Poor source material is immediately revealed as such.
    One of the old arguments back in the late 70's and early 80's against putting Studio Monitors in the home was that doing so rendered a good portion of one's source material unlistenable. Of course that didn't stop me from running through the line of 4300 series monitors and owning as many as I could afford

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hi Giskard,

    Yeah,

    Its a 20 year trip back to the 70's-early 80's for me too.

    I suppose when someone starts quizzing about levels its a dead give away!!

    The flip side is of course we had those lovely imported vinyl albums from the States in those days, and with a good front end the results were quite impressive on my 4343 (diy) back then, then came CD yuck.

    Oh well, its all a re learning curve but I love the sound, yummy.

    Guess I'll be dusting of the old trusty Kenwood / FR 12 / mc44 in the morning for a spin soon

    Ian

    Ps Hey, I just realised the pics in the background were events demonstrating the 4343's at their finest, thats scary.
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    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 08-22-2003 at 05:48 AM.

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    "The flip side is of course we had those lovely imported vinyl albums from the States in those days, and with a good front end the results were quite impressive on my 4343 (diy) back then, then came CD yuck."

    When they are good they are truly impressive Of all the 4300 series, I do miss my 4343B's the most. They are all quite fun though! I heard 4345's in quad a few times and that was going to be my next move but I never made it

    As for CD yuck, I know more than one guy or gal who simply refuses to listen to anything but vinyl.

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    Junior Member IDF's Avatar
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    "Over the weekend I will run some tests with the PC analyser using MLS to see what it looks like".


    Ian

    Please, let us know...

  12. #12
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    Me and the 4345's

    "Poor source material is immediately revealed as such. One of the old arguments back in the late 70's and early 80's against putting Studio Monitors in the home was that doing so rendered a good portion of one's source material unlistenable. "
    And in that, Giskard is spot-on. And, he predicted as much, before these 4345's came to roost here.

    I've shared - and lamented - over this unintended consequence of 43xx-series large format monitors with both Ken Pach-alphabet and Widget, independantly and in person. There is literally maybe at least 30% of my library that is undesireable - not "unlistenable", just undesireable. The 4345's are incredibly accurate (even with these "scummy" QSC's... ) and I find I just prefer to listen to material that is produced properly - no compression, wide freqency response and icy transients.

    Ian - you amaze me with your attention to those pics! Made me LOOK!

    So, accepting that much is room related, here is how I set these 4345's up:
    - everything "flat"
    - EQ the room using an RTA, white and pink noise, and multitudes of real source material. Sample, re-curve, sample again, re-curve, iteratively. Do this over a few days, too. Moods matter, and your ears get "tired" (less discerning).
    - then, modest adjustments to the Lpad's to accomodate differences in the UHF, HF and MF - be they timing or just presence related. Current settings are +1, -2 and +1 respectively. This was particularly important after resurrounds on the 2122H and 2245H.
    - then, modest adjustment (decrease) in output of highs amp, to better balance with LF.

    On some source material I futz with step 4, but always end-up back at the "default" setting anyway.

    Overall, I find that when the "right" source materials is being played - whatever genre - I spend a criminal amount of time just listening. I've a favorite spot 3/4-way back the room, where I park a stool, and grab a glass of wine and just plain listen. Some fun...

    Oh - almost forgot: There are no instructions/recommendations, per se, in the manuals. They are merely descriptive. Here's some Links for your perusal:

    JBL Studio Monitors Link

    JBLPro "Obsoletes" Link - see "Studio Monitors" area

    Last edited by boputnam; 08-22-2003 at 07:18 PM.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Bo very interesting and thankyou,

    Your feedback is reassuring and it makes the final step a real challenge.

    I recall years ago having the same fixation with my diy 4343's, that is putting on a disk Saturday morning for something to break the silence, capturing the moment on say 52nd Street, and still being perched in the same spot at 3.00pm in the afternoon with nothing done around the house.

    This could mean a change in lifestyle called "Take A Moment"

    I will do some careful listening over this rainy weekend, but not a sip of Cab Sav or Tawny Port till I think I've got it at least half right, that would be cheating.

    While we're still running warm on this thread, how do you guys park your 4343's & 4345's?

    No skid marks on the carpet she says!

    ie Straight head, 30 degree toed in , equilateral triangle.

    If figure this would also influence the level settings

    Ian


  14. #14
    Senior Member GordonW's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Hi Giskard,

    Yeah,

    Its a 20 year trip back to the 70's-early 80's for me too.

    I suppose when someone starts quizzing about levels its a dead give away!!

    The flip side is of course we had those lovely imported vinyl albums from the States in those days, and with a good front end the results were quite impressive on my 4343 (diy) back then, then came CD yuck.

    Oh well, its all a re learning curve but I love the sound, yummy.

    Guess I'll be dusting of the old trusty Kenwood / FR 12 / mc44 in the morning for a spin soon

    Ian

    Ps Hey, I just realised the pics in the background were events demonstrating the 4343's at their finest, thats scary.
    Hey, that's a Kenwood KD-2055 table, right? The synthetic concrete base, direct drive?

    I had a KD2077 (very similar, but MDF base), until recently... I sold it to the same guy who bought my old KR9600 (can't beat those for a match!! )...

    Regards,
    Gordon.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Gordon,

    You are right about the Kenwood construction, it weighs a ton.

    The actual model no is KD-600 (model with out arm) , we had a Fidelity FR 12 arm fitted by the dealer and FR cartridge at the time (about 1980).

    I recall it was a toss up b/n the Kenwood and the Linn Sondek, but the Linn kept howling with feedback everytime they wound up the volume on the RTR Magnums/Klipshorns via the Amcon, so we bought the Kenwood.

    Its never missed a beat.

    As a matter of interest I am using a neat diy phono stage from Passlabs designed by Wayne Coburn. Its J Fet design with a built in Mc stage called the Pearl, and for a couple of hundred bucks compares well to $1500 exotica.

    If you are interested go to this link:http://www.passdiy.com/projects/pearlono1.htm

    Ian
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