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Thread: 1400 Nd

  1. #16
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    "I wonder if replacing the 2235's on the mains with the 1400Nd's would be beneficial."

    For the mains that could be a good move. You will need to A/B them to see if you prefer the 1400Nd For subs use the LE14H-3 or the 1500AL if you're tired of the 2235H. 2242H's or 2245H's wouldn't be bad either

    "how does the 1400nd compare with the 2234/35?"

    Overall it's a better transducer. If you want to use a 14" and need VLF use the LE14H-1 or LE14H-3. If you want to recreate the type of LF response popular in Japan use the 1400Nd. In simplest terms the 1400Nd is an LE14H-1 with a more powerful magnet (and a few other goodies which can be read about via the link 10 Watt Street posted). The more powerful magnet shifts the bandwidth up so the 1400Nd won't go as low as the LE14H-1 or LE14H-3. The extremely attractive thing about the LE14H-3 is that it has a rubber surround which doesn't require replacement due to rot. The LE14H-3 is used in the latest JBL 14" sub, the PS1400. Tip: If you build your own LE14H-3 sub, build the enclosure size as G.T. suggests for the 1400Nd; ~ 3.5 cubic feet and tune it around 28 - 30 Hz. I won't elaborate further since we are talking about current product. If you insist on using the 1400Nd as a subwoofer, use a high pass filter to protect it as it unloads below Fb or you run the risk of mechanical damage to the compliance, either that or simply operate it within it's excursion range which means don't beat it up with VLF. The LE14H-1, LE14H-3, and 1400Nd all have better LF resolution than the 2234 or 2235 at the expense of efficiency and mechanical power handling capability.

    *****

    Note - the PS1400 with the LE14H-3 also has a switchable subsonic high pass filter that can be used to help protect the transducer from excessive VLF excursion. I personally don't use any HP filter on my 14" subs but I don't drive them to their excursion limit either.

    *****

    "If you use multiple woofers, you won't have a problem for normal applications."

    As G.T. states, this is a very good strategy. Mutual coupling will increase the output of a pair of closely spaced transducers wired in parallel and driven by a single amp by 6 dB in the VLF region. Scalability

    "Since you are going to cut off the woofer in the 80 Hz range, the real issue is a reduction in actual sensitivity between 30 Hz and 80 Hz."

    This harkens back to the halcyon days of the B212. Bandwidth limiting works for VLF transducers too If you're modeling don't forget to add in your intended high pass filter and normalize the response taking note of the efficiency hit and the pleasant increase in VLF response. Again, multiples can be used to make up for the efficiency penalty. I've posted about this on every version of the forum but here it is again
    Last edited by 4313B; 08-29-2003 at 07:42 AM.

  2. #17
    jim henderson
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    I just got my 1400NDs with fresh factory recones from Speaker City. They used LMS v3.62 to derive the T/S specs and got the following:

    Fs - 26.9572 Hz
    Vas - 376.5 liters = 13.29 cf
    Qts - 0.2738
    Qes - 0.2853
    Qms - 6.75
    Re - 6.7

    Why are these numbers so different from the specs described above? Do the drivers need to be broken in before meaningful measurements can be taken?

  3. #18
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    "Why are these numbers so different from the specs described above?"

    Well, my guess without running those numbers is that JBL changed the cone assembly back to the LE14H-1/LE14H-3. What kind of surround did you end up with? Foam? Rubber? Thick? Thin? Vas looks a bit high as does the Qms for an LE14H-1, Qts, Qes and Fs look about right...

    "Do the drivers need to be broken in before meaningful measurements can be taken?"

    Well yeah! I'm sure the reconer did that before taking the measurements... are these all the measurements they gave you?

  4. #19
    jim henderson
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    The surround appears to be standard JBL foam. Here's the spec sheet:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #20
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    Well Jim, I'm thinking that driver hasn't been broken in. Can you call them and ask them if they broke it in before running the parameters? What do the other driver's parameters look like?

  6. #21
    jim henderson
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    Speaker City replied with this:

    "CR81400ND was the part number on the kit, and we tested but did not "burn" in the component when testing. Usually, the Fs will drop a little after break in, but not more than 10%."

  7. #22
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    That's fine. It is true that some transducers don't vary by more than 10% before and after break-in. I have noticed the newer JBL transducers don't vary nearly as much. Many of the older transducers vary substantially more than 10% before and after break-in.

  8. #23
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Giskard
    Many of the older transducers vary substantially more than 10% before and after break-in.
    As a matter of fact, this LE14A I'm working-in, has improved remarkably over the past 4-hrs. The new surround was quite dense, and stiff, and was not very compliant. Notable improvement, with time.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  9. #24
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    Interesting. I've recently tested another batch of 2245H's and 2242H's. The 2245H's varied substantially, a drop of ~ 5 Hz after break-in (Same with a recent pair of LE14H's). The 2242H's are like granite. They didn't move hardly at all. The Fs dropped like half a Hertz after beating them with a big stick for 36 hours.

    One thing is for sure, these 2242H's are built for one thing, and that's causing serious, irrepairable, unrecoverable brain damage in the LF and VLF.

  10. #25
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    What did you say...?

    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  11. #26
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    Okay,

    Lets not panic, it probably compensate out some where else as far as your end tunin go's.

    Ian

  12. #27
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    Huh? Talk louder please...


  13. #28
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  14. #29
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hey Bo

    You just refoam them?? Fun Ha! That surround is like a brick! Stiff as hell. Same with me took a little while to run them in. It is almost twice as thick as the one for the 12"s look's different too. Let me know what you think. How big a box??

    Rob

  15. #30
    jim henderson
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    I measured these myself using this method http://sound.westhost.com/tsp.htm and got:

    Fs: 23.5 Hz
    Vas: 206 liters = 7.27 cubic feet
    Qts: .166
    Qes: .170
    Qms: 7.051
    Re: 4.8 ohms

    I have no idea what Speaker City did

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