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Thread: Ring Radiator Comparisons

  1. #46
    slxrti
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    "I would still try them....trust your ears..then read the graphs....not visa versa."

    Norealtalent, Slxrti

    Double mis-quote nice Take a look through the thread.

    "Since I have neither I would use my hears to fine tune to a particular taste, then quantify the changes using measurements."

    I do the exact opposite I measure and then fine tune. The measurement confirms the engineering. If the engineering isn't right your wasting your time.

    Rob
    That's what I meant!!!!

  2. #47
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Voice from the cheap seats!

    I have 075's and even crossed over at 2.4khz(N2400) to the D123, I have to work hard to find faults with that driver even though it is scoffed at many times.

    I like the idea of getting the lighter diaphrams for them sometime in the future, but the little bit of listening I have used these for I find them quite pleasant sounding at the lower and medium levels.

    I understand that they can sound quite "shouty", but I can find faults in a lot of drivers, not to mention my smallish room acoustics can make some of the best speaker systems I put together sound bad compared to when I might take them to friends houses with large rooms(my house when I win the lotto).

    So I guess we are just picking the best of the best right?????

    Ron (I guess I just wore out my 2 cents worth!!!)

  3. #48
    Steve Gonzales
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    [QUOTE=norealtalent][QUOTE=Robh3606]

    "I would still try them....trust your ears..then read the graphs....not visa versa."

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Gonzales
    Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up !

    I have never tried doing it but I have read everything there is on brain transplants. I am now offering lessons for pre-med students and need a patient for demonstrating my qualifications to the class.
    Any volunteers???
    Thanks for the offer, but my mind is made up, I'll just listen to my "ragged" 076's making SWEET harmonies on my "spectrum analyzers", ALL THREE PAIRS

  4. #49
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Steve,

    Please let us know what happens.

    Ian

  5. #50
    Roddyama
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    I don't know if this is a feature that extends to all of the above mentioned drivers or not, but I found the 077/2405 to have a very flat impedence curve in its "usable" range. It makes for very simple and predictable hi-pass filters.

  6. #51
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I should have posted these impedance plots earlier in this thread... I'm sorry that I overlooked it. I have posted it elsewhere but to make this thread more complete here it is again.

    Here are impedance plots of 4 slot tweeters 2 are labeled 8 ohm and are alnico 077s and two are older 2405 alnicos labeled 16 ohms. All four drivers are in exceptional condition and have their original diaphragms and seals. As JBL technical literature states all of these drivers use the same diaphragms and therefore should have the same impedances. The differences seen in these plots shows a random sampling of these drivers exhibiting slight production differences.

    Red 077 "8 ohm"
    Purple 077 "8 ohm"
    Green 2405 "16 ohm"
    Blue 2405 "16 ohm"

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #52
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Diminutive (2.75" diameter) neodymium 2407H has 1" threaded throat to mount on PT waveguides or OASR horns. Throat adapter (lower left) will mate them with 1.5" versions.

    Pick your desired dispersion pattern.

    Compare size to 2418H-1 in photos.

    More info here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=4695
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  8. #53
    Senior Member Jan Daugaard's Avatar
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    Front of 2407H

    Hi Zilch,

    could we have a close-up photo of the front (= the part facing the horn) of the 2407H?

    Thanks in advance!

    Jan D.

  9. #54
    John Sheerin
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    According to DJK at AA (and it's obvious if you look at them), the 2406 is made by BMS - it's the H4550. The 2407 is the H4552ND. Cheaper to buy the BMS parts, I think...

  10. #55
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Sheerin
    According to DJK at AA (and it's obvious if you look at them), the 2406 is made by BMS - it's the H4550. The 2407 is the H4552ND. Cheaper to buy the BMS parts, I think...
    BMS H4552ND is $145.00 on this site! http://www.woodhorn.com/BMS/bms_4552nd.htm
    scottyj

  11. #56
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Daugaard
    Could we have a close-up photo of the front (= the part facing the horn) of the 2407?
    It's the standard SS mesh. I can't see inside. Maybe after dark with proper illumination.

    RTA curves as follows:

    1) OASR horn
    2) El Cheapo PT-F95
    3) PT-F1010 w/adapter
    4) PT-F64 w/adapter, inline constrictions
    5) PT-F64 w/adapter, opposed constrictions

    Note: I have two PT-F64 waveguides. Pins in the adapter mate to holes in the waveguide flange to orient throat constrictions in the adapter with those in the waveguide itself. One waveguide is drilled one way, the other, opposite. I've shown results with both orientations. Opposed constrictions, the orientation used on all of the other waveguides, the last pic below, is the apparent correct one. Ahhhh, SCIENCE!

    2407H is "Plug 'n' Play" on 2) and 5), above, probably. Others require compensaton. I'll try on any compatible horn/waveguide anyone's willing to send me. No 2360's or Everest horns, please....

    Bear in mind, this is one unit only, and we don't know if the polar responses for these waveguides hold up. Listening to the pink noise, it seems to me like they do.

    I'll ask Mr. Widget to run the REAL tests on these for this thread, his time and interest permitting....
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  12. #57
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Sheerin
    According to DJK at AA (and it's obvious if you look at them), the 2406 is made by BMS - it's the H4550. The 2407 is the H4552ND. Cheaper to buy the BMS parts, I think...
    Unless my metric conversions are FUBAR, they're different diameters. The construction and mounting is different, too.

    Polyester diaphragm?

    "The 2407H incorporates a center-clamped titanium diaphragm."

    http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cspels/CBT4%205-5-03.pdf

    "Radial slot phase plug" here:

    http://www.jblpro.com/Control300/PDF...SS%200508C.pdf


    It's also been claimed that 2407 is a repackaged 035tiA.

    Don't think I'd use 2407H in place of 2426H or 2431H just yet, nope....

  13. #58
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Sheerin
    According to DJK at AA (and it's obvious if you look at them), the 2406 is made by BMS - it's the H4550. The 2407 is the H4552ND. Cheaper to buy the BMS parts, I think...
    I think there's a serious engineering management problem that needs to be addressed at Harman/JBL...one of the world's foremost audio transducer/system manufacturer's is using another vendors drivers in their new systems....and this isn't the first time either. The early TR systems employed Eminence woofers until the dealer network figured it out....then they stopped, and made their own stamped frame woofers....because they could. Is this really Lansing Heritage as we know it? Anymore....it's just a becoming a brand name led bt a multinational sourcer named "Harman International". It wouldn't surprise me if BMS becomes a Harman division, like Audax.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  14. #59
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    Unless my metric conversions are FUBAR, they're different diameters. The construction and mounting is different, too.

    It's also been claimed that 2407 is a repackaged 035tiA.

    Don't think I'd use 2407H in place of 2426H or 2431H just yet, nope....
    No...that would be the 2412H/-1....repackaged 035Ti/A

    The 2406 and 2407 both are ring radiators with 2406 with polyester/mylar diaphragms, curiously similar....very similar... to the BMS.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  15. #60
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound
    The 2406 and 2407 both are ring radiators with with polyester/mylar diaphragms, curiously similar....very similar... to the BMS.
    Don't MAKE me open these up, now.

    We'll leave the actual internal construction for Mr. Widget to discover....

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