I agree... the lower mass of the 077/2405 has my vote. We did run a measurement of the Cat eye with a 2405 diaphragm. It had essentially the same raggedness as the stock Cat eye, but with a slightly extended top end.Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
I will audition them at some point. While curves do not lie, they don't tell the whole story.
Widget
To My ears the 2405 are brighter than the 2404 (The curves bear this out).
The 2405 give up Vertical dispersion performance for Horizontal
Using the proper crossover/eq the response of the 2404 can be made flat,
with great off axis performance.
Slxrti
You have infused this little "test" session with a HUGE dose of WISDOM! You must listen to these tweeters (076-2403's) before passing judgement, they are SWEET, and yes, I've owned 075's and 077's too, both very good in their own right also. Someone commented that Westlake put 076-2403's in their $125K studio monitors because the looked cool?. No doubt that they do but they did it because the darn things are VERY GOOD. But, if anyone wants to get rid of their 076's, send them to me and I will GLADLY "dispose" of them for you. SG.
I would have thought the Westlake's used either passive or active eq to flatten the on axis response.You have infused this little "test" session with a HUGE dose of WISDOM! You must listen to these tweeters (076-2403's) before passing judgement, they are SWEET, and yes, I've owned 075's and 077's too, both very good in their own right also. Someone commented that Westlake put 076-2403's in their $125K studio monitors because the looked cool?. No doubt that they do but they did it because the darn things are VERY GOOD. But, if anyone wants to get rid of their 076's, send them to me and I will GLADLY "dispose" of them for you
I agree they look cool, I do doubt if that was the reason Westlake used them.
Slxrti
I bought some 2405,s to replace my 2404,s and also found them to be brighter, and sharper sounding than the 2404. I find the 2404 has a soft sounding top end! Found out I prefer it to the 2405!
scottyj
Hi Steve,You have infused this little "test" session with a HUGE dose of WISDOM! You must listen to these tweeters (076-2403's) before passing judgement, they are SWEET, and yes, I've owned 075's and 077's too, both very good in their own right also. Someone commented that Westlake put 076-2403's in their $125K studio monitors because the looked cool?. No doubt that they do but they did it because the darn things are VERY GOOD. But, if anyone wants to get rid of their 076's, send them to me and I will GLADLY "dispose" of them for you
Well this is the thing I like about audio.
There's the romance and there's the quirky logic to it all.
You never know what your going to get until you actually try it.
Another case in point was the post I put up recently in the 4343 crossover modifications thread where a member was hoaxed into running his 4343's in full passive mode for a taste test using his Passlabs X250 as the prime amplifier, something he had never previously done as his system was always bi amped. Up till this point the notion was held that it was difficult to imagine how his system could sound better.
Basically he back flipped with a long email at 2.00 am in the morning, now enlightened with enthusiasm and enjoyment.
Its a case of just trying different things and hearing it for yourself.
Ian
Thanks for the input on the 2403's guys. I will go ahead and test them when the time comes. I finaly get home after a month on the road this Tuesday and hope to have the Ians designed 5-way xover up and testing by August.
Ken
The SM-1 is a 5-way, high power, phase coincident monitor. Designed as the ultimate in high power monitoring, the SM-1 offers 6 dB more headroom at low frequencies than most studio monitors. While its physical dimensions and weight may preclude its use in many existing facilities, any substantial investment in updated facilities or new room designs should include serious consideration of this monitor. Careful selection of drivers, combined with a unique mechanical configuration and phase aligned crossovers, provide an acoustic depth of field unattainable with conventional designs. The SM-1 offers the user a choice of powering their system in a bi-amp or passive tri or quad amp set-up with the MRX-2, 2-way active crossover, a quad-amp or passive pent or sext amp set-up with the SM-1X, 4-way active crossover or fully active pent-amp set-up with both the SM-1X and MRX-2 being used. All this and more make the SM-1 the world's most powerful production reference monitor system.
[QUOTE=Mr. Widget]I agree... the lower mass of the 077/2405 has my vote. We did run a measurement of the Cat eye with a 2405 diaphragm. It had essentially the same raggedness as the stock Cat eye, but with a slightly extended top end.
I will audition them at some point. While curves do not lie, they don't tell the whole story.
[QUOTE=Mr. Widget]...Not all specs are created equally...
Yeah, Westlake throws tweeters in their world class monitors just because they look cool, while JBL posts inferior specs derived from multimillion dollar research facilities. For sure, not all specs are created equal. I'll go by the ones JBL provides, you know, the ones radiating from these "ragged" cats eyes and extending their warmth into my spectrum analyzers, EARS!!!
[QUOTE=norealtalent][QUOTE=Mr. Widget]I agree... the lower mass of the 077/2405 has my vote. We did run a measurement of the Cat eye with a 2405 diaphragm. It had essentially the same raggedness as the stock Cat eye, but with a slightly extended top end.
I will audition them at some point. While curves do not lie, they don't tell the whole story.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up !...Not all specs are created equally...
Yeah, Westlake throws tweeters in their world class monitors just because they look cool, while JBL posts inferior specs derived from multimillion dollar research facilities. For sure, not all specs are created equal. I'll go by the ones JBL provides, you know, the ones radiating from these "ragged" cats eyes and extending their warmth into my spectrum analyzers, EARS!!!
"I would still try them....trust your ears..then read the graphs....not visa versa."
Hello Ian
I would too if I had them. As far as trust your ears and then the graphs only if your budget will allow it
"Yeah, Westlake throws tweeters in their world class monitors just because they look cool, while JBL posts inferior specs derived from multimillion dollar research facilities. For sure, not all specs are created equal."
Look at the 4300 series monitors, all of them, what do you see?? 2405's
With both drivers available why is that?? Westlake picks and chooses from any and all manufacturers for the best drivers for their applications. Why did they choose the 2403 over a 2405?? I think it has more to do with design philosophies.
If you look at the JBL crossovers they are high order while the Westlakes as minimum phase would be lower order. The Westlakes use a 1" driver and have the 2403 above where the rising response would work very nicely against the roll off in the 1 ' driver. You also have the directivity at crossover with the 1" horn to consider. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2403 matches better at crossover than the 2405. I am just blowing smoke here but I think what we really have are 2 drivers that were specifically engineered for their intended use. The 2405 was JBL's choice for their monitors and better meet their design philosophies. The 2403 meets the Westlake driver reqiurements with it's unique attributes better than a 2405 for the SM1. They each have there own strengths and will shine and give their best when they are used as they were designed to be.
Rob
[QUOTE=Robh3606]
"I would still try them....trust your ears..then read the graphs....not visa versa."
[QUOTE=Steve Gonzales] Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up !
I have never tried doing it but I have read everything there is on brain transplants. I am now offering lessons for pre-med students and need a patient for demonstrating my qualifications to the class.
Any volunteers???
[QUOTE=norealtalent][QUOTE=Robh3606]
"I would still try them....trust your ears..then read the graphs....not visa versa."
I agree, if I can fine neutral program material and I a perfect audio memory of what it should sound like.
Since I have neither I would use my hears to fine tune to a particular taste, then quantify the changes using measurements.
slxrti
"I would still try them....trust your ears..then read the graphs....not visa versa."
Norealtalent, Slxrti
Double mis-quote nice
"Since I have neither I would use my hears to fine tune to a particular taste, then quantify the changes using measurements."
I do the exact opposite I measure and then fine tune. The measurement confirms the engineering. If the engineering isn't right your wasting your time.
Rob
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, moved on to bigger and better things...
4350's for the next round
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