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Thread: 2123J-b Taste test

  1. #1
    luxmanlover
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    2123J-b Taste test

    I finally got a chance to give the 2123's a test. I must say I'm most impressed. They turned out to be everything I could ask for sound wise. The 2 ways in the middle of the shot used Eminence 1" CD's, which while I thought they sounded very detailed, often sounded "shouty" particulairly on female vocals and some lead guitar.
    I first tried the 2123's crossing them at 300 from the 2235's in the yard sub and 1600 over to Eminence, that didn't make much of a difference. A bunch of combo's later I tried crossing them over much higher, at 6000Hz, into the 1" CD, what an improvement. The sound became much warmer and mellower and still had improved detail over the horn/cd combo! I was quite shocked. Turning up the top end slightly made still another improvement, (gotta love active crossovers). My golden eared girlfreind could hear the difference immediately and actually made exactly the same observations without me even giving her my impressions. I can hardly wait to set it up in the house again.
    Kelly
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  2. #2
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Very cool, Kelly. Nice description.

    What is the brand of active crossover you're using, and what are the slopes?

    For comparison, the 3145 network (passive internal, 4345) crosses the 2122H at 290 Hz and 1,300 Hz (12 dB per octave), with the 2421B running to 10kHz and crossing to the slot UHF (at 18 dB per octave) - in this configuration the compression driver takes much of the load.

    The 3150 crosses the 2022H at 250Hz and 1,100Hz, and to the slot UHF at 9kHz (all at 12dB).

    But, above all, take heed!!
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    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  3. #3
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    another Yamaha Pro amp lover?

    I couldn't help noticing what appears to be a PC2002M at the bottom of the stack. I thought I was the only one using these in a hi-fi setup. Glad to see I'm not alone ! Have you been using it for a long time ?

    :-)


    jblnut

  4. #4
    luxmanlover
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    You're preachin' to the choir as far hearing goes Bo, I damaged my hearing a while back and it's been a very slow painful recovery. I rarely listen to music much above 85-90 Db anymore, I always wear protection mowing the lawn and with any power tool louder than a cordless drill.
    I found a pair of UREI 525 XO's at my buddies pro shop that need a good home so I grabbed both of them. They use 18 Db slopes and work great.
    The amp on the bottom is a Yamaha, a P-2200 which I was using on the sub and a D-150a on the mid and top. That D-150a was the best $100.00 I spent on sound gear. It's crystal clear with out beening crunchy and it's dead silent, my fav amp.I haven't had the Yamaha long so I haven't tried it out much, only on bass so far, but I'm putting everything back together soon so I'll try it out on the horns and see how it sounds.
    Kelly
    Last edited by luxmanlover; 08-18-2003 at 08:41 PM.

  5. #5
    Anton
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    Taste Test

    The sound diference by changing the crossover point is of great interest
    to myself also . I also build a system using a 2235 and 2123H and 2421
    1"' driver with a Eminence BiRadial horn

    Not having active crossover I built my own passive network
    ,had the same sound problems to much horn etc
    was using recomended tables etc.
    Finally I decided to crossover the horn a 6db first order network at
    about 4000Hz plus. and everuthing got sweeter sounding with having
    more detail at real low listeing levels .

    So I was not just hearing things .Thanks

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Sounds like you two should consider a different horn.

  7. #7
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Sounds like you two should consider a different horn
    That's what I was thinking, too.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I will 3rd that too about the horn. Higheset reccomended on the 2123 is 3k so you are pushing it and getting into the area where that 10 will beam like a flashlight. You have any compensation on the horn?? If its a true CD like the JBL Biraidials 2344/2342/2360/2380 you need compensation otherwise the response out of the horn will follow the driver response without a horn giving you skewed output. Too much at say 1K-3K and too little on the high end. The 2370 is also a Biradial but it directivity changes with frequency and it closely matches the slat plate lense on the vintage monitors. It could use some comp above 7K but is flat up to that. It depends on what your horns are doing. Do you have a spec sheet on them for directivity and a frequency response curve with and without compensation if needed??

    Rob
    Last edited by Robh3606; 08-19-2003 at 07:37 AM.

  9. #9
    luxmanlover
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    You guys jumped all over the horn deal....lol..... The POINT I was trying to make was how good the 2123's sounded, but I appreciate your input regardless. But you are right, I've had issues with the horn CD combo from the get go and this is just an experiment into alternatives. I also have a set of 2470's and a set of 2421 diaphrams I bought from RG. They had a smoother sound but not the top end extention of the PSD's (which has a passive compensation circuit). I still want to experiment more with that combo either on the Eminence horn or on a 2370. So if anyone has a schematic for a passive compensation circuit for 16 Ohm 2421 I'd apreciate a shout.
    Kelly

  10. #10
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Hey, Kelly...

    I might be gettin' a bit confused here (and don't know enough about Eminence to know better...), but why not network the 2421's to a 2405 slot UHF ? That will surely bring the "top end extension" you're wanting, no?

    And, "Bingo!!", you've got a home-grown 4345/4355 hybrid!
    Last edited by boputnam; 08-20-2003 at 06:28 AM.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  11. #11
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I will second that! Just get some 2307 and lenses and away you go! Nice having choices!

    Rob

  12. #12
    luxmanlover
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    Hey Bo.... thanks again for the 2123 deal.. I appreciate it that much more now that I've heard them....A pair of super tweets would be the natural progression but I'm just working with what I have for now, see where the limit is. Besides I spent a fair bit of dough on the Hi-fi already this year, all deals that couldn't be passed on, ( at least that the story the GF gets). Besides I'm thinking a properly setup horn should be able to play out to my hearing limit anyway
    Kelly

    They only tested me to 8k last time I went to get my ears checked, I'll see if they will run it all the way up and see where it stops ....could be interesting.
    Last edited by luxmanlover; 08-19-2003 at 04:34 PM.

  13. #13
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    If you decide on the 2370 check out the PI speaker site. Wayne is a nice guy and uses an 18db network with compensation for that horn on a couple of his designs. If you ask him he will send you the schematics for his networks. Just something to think about if you don't want to add a slot now but want some more extension on that horn.

    Rob

  14. #14
    luxmanlover
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    Actually if you look at the pic on the start of the thread , the 2 way in the middle is a 4Pi pro...lol...I talked to Wayne about it a bit but his stuff is all 8 ohms and he gave me some recommendations which for the moment are a bit over my head.
    Kelly

  15. #15
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Hey, Kelly - no need to thank me, man, glad to help.

    And, I'm certainly not meaning to pry into your plan, but you are so close to a great solution! I understand the budget limit (or at least I used to...), but you can snag some 2405's or 077's on eBay for usually around $400 pr, tops.

    And, my hearing - at least on one side - rolls-off at about 13k (those lads at summer camp never clued into ear-plugs on the shooting range in the 1960's... ), and I can assure you, that every time I think loss of information >13,000Hz won't matter to me (on that ear) - it does.

    Simply put, you need the transducers to exceed - seemlessly - your hearing range. And, that "golden eared girlfreind" has to be looked after too, ya know...
    Last edited by boputnam; 08-19-2003 at 04:57 PM.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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