best sounding 4430-clone?

[Jakob]

I'm thinking of building a pair of 4430-clones with a 2"- and 15"-driver, to use together with either a bass horn or an 18" woofer below maybe 80 Hz. There is so many drivers to choose from, I don't know where to begin.
2226 and 2445, could those be a start?

B.R!

[Mr. Widget]

I'm thinking of building a pair of 4430-clones with a 2"- and 15"-driver...2226 and 2445, could those be a start?

I guess I am missing the 4430 connection. To my mind the key ingredients that make the 4430 a unique system are the use of a woofer that has a remarkably wide useful frequency response range and crossing it over to a 90° X 90° CD horn where it also has a 90° X 90° dispersion pattern. In the early literature JBL also professed to having the acoustic centers positioned for time alignment, but I don't buy that... especially when they never changed the baffle depth when they substituted the HF drivers in later versions which effectively changed the time alignment... but what ever. It is still a popular design.

Now, I think you can build a system with a 2226 and 2445, add a sub, the right horn and depending on your HF requirements possibly add a tweeter and come up with a superior system to the 4430... but it wouldn't be a 4430.

Widget

[Zilch]

As Mr. Widget suggests, I'd say 2226 and 2445 would be a significant departure from the fundamentals of 4430 design, and would not qualify as "clone."

If you want 4430, you gotta stick with the 4430 program, which can be accomplished. Plan on building at least a portion of the N3134 crossover, too, tho.

Also, you haven't mentioned what horn you're proposing to use with a 2" driver. 2360A?

NOW we're talkin'!

[I'm tryin' 2346 next....]

[Jakob]

Thank You for Your replies and excuse my bad english, it's probably worse than my bad swedish. Clone is a wrong picked word since I don't necessarily want an exact copy of the 4430. (sorry!!) I was more thinking in the terms of the driver configuration: a compression driver and a 15" driver with a wide usable frequency response.

Since I will use this system together with some kind of subwoofer, my main interest in the 15" driver is good midbass and midrange. For the UHF I have a pair of 2405's if I feel the need.
My problem is the amount of drivers. I will never get the chance to see less compare them all. So I thought I would rely on this forums members wast experience.

Should I use a 1" driver with f.e. the 2344 horn,
or shold I go for a 2" driver with a 2360A horn. (Dispersion is not critical)What do You loose or gain depending on the size of the driver?
My only experience in this area is with the 2416H-1 with a 2342 horn. To me it sounded a bit harsch and I want something I can use as low as maybe 800hz or lower.

Regarding the 15" driver I think the 2226 will do everything I want, and more.

I do appreciate all the help I can get. Big or small everything counts!

Thanks!!!

[GordonW]

The 2445 is a far better driver than the 2416... it should definitely fit your goal of "less harsh". Much smoother response. Of course, that's generally the case with all the JBL 2" throat drivers, compared to the 1" throat units.

Of course, the catch is that the 2" drivers generally don't go quite as high on the top end as the 1" drivers. This is why, on systems like the S8 and such, JBL used a supertweeter, such as a 2402 or 2405. It's really the way to go, above 10KHz. However, with a 2445 and its titanium diaphragm, you may be able to incorporate a "shelving network" (ie, a cap and resistor in parallel, to increase the response starting at about 12KHz and higher, at the expense of a little loss in efficiency below 10kHz, which should be quite tolerable), then you might get the 2445 to perform well, by itself, on the highs...

If you're only going to take the 15"/horn system down to 80 Hz (ie, cross over to the subs there), you don't need big bass-handling out of the 15" driver... you might be better off using a lighter-cone 15", such as maybe a K140/K145 or LE15, (or maybe even a 130A/2220) instead of the 2226. Chances are, you can get a bit better mid-band efficiency (better match to the horn driver, which means less padding of the horn and supertweeter, which is always better) and probably a bit better behaviour up to the 800 Hz crossover point. Others may disagree, and there may be other compelling logic to go ahead and use a 2226, but just from a fundamental specs standpoint, the lighter-cone drivers would seem to be just the thing.

Of course, if you think you ever might use the system without the subwoofer (just the cabinets by themselves), then the 2226 would be quite optimal. Easy to get good output down to 40 Hz...

Regards,
Gordon.

[Mr. Widget]

I agree with Gordon's recommendations.

Assuming you don't have any drivers... I'd go with the the K145 and 2441 augmented by the 2405 up top and the 2245 down below. As I type this I'm thinking.... "hey I should try that!" I would use a 2397 "smith" horn, but the 2360A would probably be nice to... just a bit large for my taste.

Widget

[steveh]

Widget,Interesting lineup of drivers. What would you suggest with regards to crossovers?