L100 to the test

[Zilch]

Stumbled across my L100's when a forum member was here last week, and thought it would be interesting to see what the RTA said about them.

"Forward," indeed! About 6 dB's worth.

First curve is attenuators set to "Lab Standard" zero.

So, maybe the Zilchster's 123A-1's have eaten it over the years?

Nope. Put in 2213H, same settings, second curve.

Can I dial them flat? Well, nearly. Both controls set to "-3" (9:00, third curve) gets closest, but it also kills HF extension above 12.5 kHz, and "forward" voicing remains. Only autoEQ could fix them, apparently.

I recall another forum member recently determining that "-" settings were most appropriate.

Anybody else with L100's and an RTA willing to confirm this?

'Cause I look at my results and say, "Well, THAT'S certainly WRONG!"

Surely, I'm not the first to have actually measured them. Maybe itza "Don't ask, don't tell" thing.

If somebody came up with a decent crossover for these things, there MIGHT be a market for them.

[Driver quality is clearly in place....]

[johnaec]

Hey Zilch - did you ever RTA your 4826B's? I was just wondering how your curves correlated with the one I posted several months ago. (I did mine with the cabinet flat on the floor pointing up, with the mic centered 1 meter directly over the center of the cabinet.)

'Just curious...

John

[Zilch]

Hi, John!

They're buried behind the "Quick and Dirties" as "JBL" backdrop right now, but I'll give it a try....

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...8348#post58348

Anybody says, "Looks like L100" will be visited by the "Colonics*R*Us" courtesy van....

[GordonW]

Hey, how about this idea: Put a small capacitor (probably between .47uf and 1.25 uf) between the input and center (output) terminals of the L-pad for the tweeter on the L100 crossover. This would "shelf up" the response at the upper end of the spectrum, while still allowing one to "pull down" the low-end of the tweeter with the L-pad...

I've done this type of shelving with other tweeters (2402s and such) in custom designs... it's the same idea as the "HF lift" circuit on the L200 and 4330 crossovers. Certainly works there!

Regards,
Gordon.

[Mr. Widget]

Anybody else with L100's and an RTA willing to confirm this?

Been there...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...04&postcount=3

[Zilch]

Been there....

COOL!

[I bring this one over.... ]

[bbrown]

There's a guy on the Klipsch forums designing 120db/octave slope crossovers for the Klipsch Heritage models. Almost NO interaction between drivers. Reports have been favorable, but for $900+ a pair, I wouldn't probably spend the money for a pair of L100s, even if he would design them for me (he would). He has vraious models, crossover points, etc. He also is marketing a wooden tractrix horn retro fit for Belles and KHorns.

If someone designs new crossovers, I'd would be happy to try them in my 4311s too.

Bruce

[Mr. Widget]

The driver interaction is quite severe in the L100... I have found that my measurements of the L100 change dramatically by moving the microphone just a few inches (to an extent this is true of all multi-way speakers, but it is extreme with the L100). If I were a bit more curious I would set up my DEQX with 120 or even 300dB/octave slopes to "see" and hear the improvement...

I doubt I will though as my interest in the L100 is purely for it's historic significance and as a nostalgic look back. For musical accuracy, I go elsewhere.

I fully agree that investing $900 for those crossovers seems a bit silly. I think that Al's work is impressive, but I'd have him help out on a different project.

Widget

[Don Mascali]

What Mic are you using and has it been calibrated?

I use the ECM-8000 out of the box. I just wonder how acurate they are?

Thanks,
DonM

[Zilch]

Hi, Don!

Same as you, outta the box.

I DID haul that L100 over to Mr. Widget's yesterday for testing on quasi-anechoic CLIO, because I was asking myself the same question: if my RTA used in my garage "laboratory" does not give meaningful and reliable results, then I'm peein' up a rope here.

Answer: CLIO gave basically the same results on this L100 as I got, and further demonstrated that, even at 1 M, where you aim the mic matters. Centered on the tweeter (a dubious standard procedure of some "experts") gave different results.

There's considerable "smoothing" in the curves displayed by a 1/3 octave RTA, and we miss much of the detail presented by more sophisticated analytical tools. Insofar as the general trends are concerned, though, we may actually have advantage. With these resolution limitations understood, I'm confident we can diddle with impunity....

[Don Mascali]

Thank you, thats good news.