Giskard "former member?"

[mikebake]

"Human dignity is on a MUCH higher level than ANY technical input, regardless of what forum or group we are a part of."

I never said otherwise, sir.

"I have to disagree with you on one person being of greater value than another, no way man."

I did not say that, Steve. I said value of input, not the person. Don't twist what I said.
Still, try the Mother Theresa/Pol Pot thing and explain it in your own value terms, then.


" I've been doing this for a long time and I don't remember any of you standing by me and coaching me"

Is there a reason why not?

"and I've done quite well for myself, thank you."



"I don't want to "pay a price" for info."

Everything has some cost.

"There are many examples of patient and helpful people who share without a price here. I'll take that ANYDAY!."

Hey, tough choices have to be made sometimes. I'd push the button to sacrifice some members to preserve others, given the opportunity. Their input is not all equally worthwhile. And in this thread, neither is mine. Over and out.

[speakerdave]

IMO, there is no business as usual on here without Giskard. At least, not of the caliber as before.

Hear, hear!

There is not one iota of a possibility that any other member's contribution is in the same league with Giskard's. If there is a person who fancies himself taking Giskard's place, and I think there is, he can forget it. The one thing that made this forum an oasis on the internet was its capacity to raise the discourse above the level of opinion. Giskard provided almost all of that. Sometimes people need to be called on their factual errors, misrepresentations and self-serving, sanctimonious, hypocritical claptrap, and he was the only one here with the background, the knowledge and the personal force to do it. Without that element the forum will be of radically reduced value and the exodus will continue.

Personally, I would like to see the others directly involved in recent disputes follow Giskard into self-imposed silence on the subject.

David

[JBLnsince1959]

smoke 'em if you got em......

just did ( and don't tell my doctor please)

[mikebake]

Hear, hear!

There is not one iota of a possibility that any other member's contribution is in the same league with Giskard's. If there is a person who fancies himself taking Giskard's place, and I think there is, he can forget it. The one thing that made this forum an oasis on the internet was its capacity to raise the discourse above the level of opinion. Giskard provided almost all of that. Sometimes people need to be called on their factual errors, misrepresentations and self-serving, sanctimonious, hypocritical claptrap, and he was the only one here with the background, the knowledge and the personal force to do it. Without that element the forum will be of radically reduced value and the exodus will continue.

Personally, I would like to see the others directly involved in recent disputes follow Giskard into self-imposed silence on the subject.

David

Good one, Dave!!!

[Titanium Dome]

That is a lovely concept, everyone being equal, and I appreciate both your intentions and efforts, but I don't personally buy it at all. Everyone being equal is basically a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality.
Who among us doesn't actually agree in most realms in life that some are more equal than others? Where did the phrase come from, after all?
We all have human dignity, but we do not all contribute the same to life, etc. etc. and hence are unequal.

Hey Mike, I understand where you're coming from. I haven't turned into a softie trying to make everyone warm and fuzzy.

My daily work in the hardcore gang-controlled neighborhoods of LA just brings what you're calling "a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality" into pretty sharp focus. When a gangbanger (a girl no less) puts a gun to the back of my head and asks who I think I am, I better know how to say it in a way that makes us both equals in the end.

I grew up there in Lucas Co., Ohio, and I can remember the individualism, excellence, and selectivity I learned at Anthony Wayne High School. But here in the huge cultural stew of SoCal, that will get me killed if I don't watch out. When we get a large group of diverse people together, dignity, respect, and equality are always the keys to survival. People who don't have a lot or who haven't done a lot aren't all that interested in hearing how you're better than them, either by your own words or by the mouths of others.

So my point is that the wonderful cultural diversity of LH forum, dedicated to one pretty straightforward idea, creates a place where American, Aussie, Swede, South African, Kuwaiti, engineer, musician, hi-fi enthusiast, gadfly, rich, poor, horn-lover, inverted dome metalhead, everyone sits at the same table as equals. If we don't, then what kind of a community is it? Who gets the special chairs, and who determines that? Then do we have to get an even nicer chair to keep some of them or get them to come back to the table?

It's all a lot to swallow, I know, but I wanted you to know what was in my mind. You can always turn on the mode when you see my long-winded streak starting and skip to the next post.

[mikebake]

Hey Mike, I understand where you're coming from. I haven't turned into a softie trying to make everyone warm and fuzzy.

My daily work in the hardcore gang-controlled neighborhoods of LA just brings what you're calling "a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality" into pretty sharp focus. When a gangbanger (a girl no less) puts a gun to the back of my head and asks who I think I am, I better know how to say it in a way that makes us both equals in the end.

My stint years ago as #121-098 started with a gun to the back of my head, and I became a master at knowing how to say it to make us both equals at the end; although actually you and I both know that we don't really make them equal, just make them feel that way. That is the difference.
Nothing smug on my end; I've travelled solo a fair bit, and lived in Germany alone at age 18, Costa Rica at 23, Texas and Florida in my 20's, roamed the south hitchhiking, etc. I understand the whole "equal" ethos, and that it isn't reality........just a perception.
Now in my own life, I have made it a general habit to try to build others esteem, in real ways, and my belief in the value of people is huge; most people are not appreciated enough, do not get enough praise, and need kindness. It is what works. "Force over" does not work, "power with" works. If you interview my sphere of influence and ask, I believe you'd see I am a giver, not a taker, and interested in the other fellow.

[spkrman57]

When Mike put the "Midwest Audio Fest" together last time in Lima, Ohio I will say for sure that he lost money on the event, but he did it anyways to get folks together and share their comeraderie (sp ???) together.

I had a great time and met folks I never would have run into in the regular world. Mike and his wife invited my GF and I to his house and treated us like royalty, you won't find that everywhere.

Not to mention he has sold me some great audio gear at prices lower than he would have gotten on e-bay.

Glad to have you as a friend Mike!!!!!

Ron

[hector.murray]

Not to mention he has sold me some great audio gear at prices lower than he would have gotten on e-bay.

ditto

[Don C]

Personally, I would like to see the others directly involved in recent disputes follow Giskard into self-imposed silence on the subject.

David

My thoughts exactly.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well there is clearly some interesting insights here and some divided opinion.

So what are you guys looking for? A Bill of Rights or a Civil War.

If you want either your in the wrong place.

I can remember in the original forums (this is the 3rd generation I think) there were never any issues to speak and certainly non of this kind of discussion.

The purpose of the forums has not changed, only the people that occupy it.

If the discussion continues to slide further towards the whys and why not over recent events we may move the thread to the Forum Issues.

Ian

[johnaec]

Personally, I can sympathize with Giskard. It's beyond question he's the top expert around here, and because of that, almost by default he falls into the role of "giver" rather than "givee". I can see how it'd get tiring always giving answers, while there's little we can give back, much as we'd like to. I always felt extremely fortunate that he was inclined to fill so many requests, especially for documents and info no one else has access to, but what could anyone give in return? Sure, we can contribute what knowledge we have to the forum, but very little of this is likely useful to Giskard. I see this in a number of forums I visit - the one or two obvious experts just get burnt out - 'always on the giving end but rarely on the receiving.

I hope Giskard's just taking a well deserved "vacation", but either way, I can understand...

John

[Zilch]

Some may not realize it, but there's a substantial time commitment in doing what Giskard does here. It now takes several hours a day just to keep up with all of the forums. And many of the technical answers require research time, as well. Every time he puts up a voltage drive curve, that ain't just a couple of mouse clicks to come up with those for us, either.

Plus, there's always a bunch of "threads" in the background, via phone, PM and eMail. If I've got ten or so going on, Giskard must have 100 working. Everyone's gotta strike their own balance here. It's easy for me to see how it could get out of hand for someone so dedicated and generous as he is. Soon, it's all-consuming and unrewarding. I immensely appreciate the assistance he's given me. He's welcome to whatever space he needs as far as I'm concerned....

[Mr. Widget]

I think that it is time that we put this topic to rest... ending on an upbeat note.

Widget