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Thread: Don't slay me ! I did a search first !!

  1. #1
    Senior Member LE15-Thumper's Avatar
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    Don't slay me ! I did a search first !!

    Don't slay me ! I did a search first !!

    I recently stripped down my Lancer 101's and was cleaning the siver bands on the exterior of the 175 drivers. I noticed slight differences in what I thought should have been "Identical" horns. Both say 1217-1290

    1. They are different lengths !

    2. They mount differently, one has an intregral flange, the other needs a circular clamp like you would use on a 075.

    Different production runs ? I can see the benefit of integral mounting flange. But why the difference in horn length.

    The HL-87 in the 1976 components catalogue shows the intregral flange.

    The 2305 pro from 1974 Pro Catalogue shows the horn needing the external clamp.


    Both of my horns show 1217-1290 on them.

    Why two different horns that are quite different. THEY WERE PURCHASED BOTH AT THE SAME time on the same day.
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    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Slay you!!?? Nothing doing...

    Can you measure the horn length - from the motor to the diffraction grate? From the one picture, it looks like it could be a about a couple inches or more...

    They are apparently of quite different expansion gradients.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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    Senior Member LE15-Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam
    Slay you!!?? Nothing doing...

    Can you measure the horn length - from the motor to the diffraction grate? From the one picture, it looks like it could be a about a couple inches or more...

    They are apparently of quite different expansion gradients.

    The "masher" portion / Lens is the same length on each aprrox 1 3/4".

    There is exactly 1" difference in the Horn length.
    Now how I am supposed to get $3000.00 for these eBay now !!!
    LE15-Thumper
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    Hi

    I'd guess that your 2 different horns are simply the result of JBL rebadging the Pro 2301 & a Pro 2305 into the Consumer 1217-1290 designation . ( That's a bit of sloppy "house-keeping" on JBLs' part ).

    The 2301 & 2305 were both Pro division "potato mashers" for the 1" exit driver . One of those models had a shorter horn than the other ( see the links for a timeline of the changes ) .

    2301 in 1982 "PRO" catalogue ( 6 13/16" or 173mm long )

    2305 in 1980 "PRO" catalogue ( 7 3/4" or 197mm long )

    HL87 in 1976 "Components" catalogue ( 6 3/4" or 171mm long )

    ( all dimensions are as stated by the various catalogues )


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    Quote Originally Posted by LE15-Thumper
    Now how I am supposed to get $3000.00 for these eBay now !!!
    :dont-know

  6. #6
    Steve Gonzales
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    Not quite clear

    The farthest horn appears to be an HL87 for sure. What are the chances someone took a heatlamp and changed the tags?

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    How far apart are the SN's on the 101's themselves? I often see paired speakers that are several hundred SN's apart, with resulting minute differences between them - maybe they changed the horn types between runs. It's always been a mystery to me how speakers could be sold in pairs with such distant SN's - it's like they pick the first out of one part of the warehouse and the second from somewhere else...

    John

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    Senior Member LE15-Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Gonzales
    The farthest horn appears to be an HL87 for sure. What are the chances someone took a heatlamp and changed the tags?
    Not likely, these were my father's speakers from 1974. He bought the S1 kit direct from Audio King in Minneapolis.

    How could one be a pro horn from a 1982 catalogue when purchased original in 1974 ?
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    Senior Member LE15-Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnaec
    How far apart are the SN's on the 101's themselves? I often see paired speakers that are several hundred SN's apart, with resulting minute differences between them - maybe they changed the horn types between runs. It's always been a mystery to me how speakers could be sold in pairs with such distant SN's - it's like they pick the first out of one part of the warehouse and the second from somewhere else...

    John
    The Foilcal that has a touch of glue out the bottom is from the nearest horn in the photo. That was my poor glue job, The foilcal was pretty much completely detached when I removed the horn from the cabinet.
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    Senior Member LE15-Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnaec
    How far apart are the SN's on the 101's themselves? I often see paired speakers that are several hundred SN's apart, with resulting minute differences between them - maybe they changed the horn types between runs. It's always been a mystery to me how speakers could be sold in pairs with such distant SN's - it's like they pick the first out of one part of the warehouse and the second from somewhere else...

    John
    Sorry John, misread your post. These were kits using Barzalay cabinets. No SN or labels came with the actual cabs themselves.
    BTW, I probably misspelled the name of these cabs, having never actually seen any documentation on the manufacturer. My dad always said they were "Barzalay"
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    It looks like

    a simple case of
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    Senior Member LE15-Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    a simple case of
    Thanks Giskard, that is much more informative than your first post on this thread !!!
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    It's still funny how two kits apparently purchased together could differ so much in SN's, unless your father got the kits at different times...

    John

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    - Here are two documented 1217-1290 horns of different lengths .

    - The first pic is the longer of the two and dates from 1969 / while the shorter horn ( which includes the integral flange ) is a collage of info from the 1974 catalogue .

    - The 2305 is the "Pro" equivalent of the original 1217-1290 while the 2301 is the "Pro" equivalent of the H87 ( which is the short version 1217-1290 ) .
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    Quote Originally Posted by LE15-Thumper
    Thanks Giskard, that is much more informative than your first post on this thread !!!
    Gotta separate the chaff from the grain it seems...
    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K
    - Here are two documented 1217-1290 horns of different lengths .
    Nice research!

    This is what I'm talkin' 'bout!

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