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Thread: New Poll At My Altec User's Board, And I'd Like YOUR Opinions!

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    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    Exclamation New Poll At My Altec User's Board, And I'd Like YOUR Opinions!

    Hello Fellow Altec and Lansing-related Speaker Fans!

    I am conducting a poll on my Altec User's Board that asks the following:

    ------------------

    First - if they could be manufactured again, and at a reasonable price, which one(s) would you like to see made available, and would consider purchasing? No matter WHAT the brand name USED to be, please list -

    A. The individual loudspeakers components that you would like to see re-introduced and would consider purchasing.

    B. The loudspeaker systems that you would like to see re-introduced and would consider purchasing.

    Second - if they could be manufactured and made available, again at a reasonable price, please list -

    A. The individual loudspeakers components that you would like to see introduced and would consider purchasing.

    B. The loudspeaker systems that you would like to see introduced and would consider purchasing.

    Lastly - would it make a difference to you if these products were made in the USA or some other country, like, perhaps, China?

    Now - if it's a speaker or system that you feel would be marketable, even thoug you, personally, might not buy them, go ahead and list them, too - I'd like to know what everyone thinks about these issues.

    I look forward to your replies.

    --------------------

    Guys, I'd like to have YOUR opinions, too, either here or at the message board, so let 'er rip!

    Here's the direct link to the poll:

    Altec User's Board Poll
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

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    Re: New Poll At My Altec User's Board, And I'd Like YOUR Opinions!

    Originally posted by Todd W. White
    Lastly - would it make a difference to you if these products were made in the USA or some other country, like, perhaps, China?
    Made in China, why not made in somewhere, you know the land over there behind the hill...

    Made in my kitchen will sound better!

    Let's be serious. Made in USA, in EEC (not all countries), yes I do agree.

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    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    I think Altec should re-issue what they did best...studio playback. I think they should re-introduce the 604, but it should be the best 604 ever, maybe teamed up with another 15" woofer.
    I think Altec has lost too much ground in theatre sound, sound reinforcement, and even sonsumer stereo for them to re-emerge in those markets. If they make a great 604 in studio monitor cabinet and maybe also sell an active crossover made specifically for that cabinet, to deliver 30 to 20K Hz flat, they may be able to re-establish themselves in the pro audio market.
    Should they consider making it "off shore"? If they can surpass TAD's quality, then yes!

    P.S. They must, of course, get completely out of putting "Altec" on computer speakers!

    Tom

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    "I think Altec should re-issue what they did best...studio playback. I think they should re-introduce the 604, but it should be the best 604 ever, maybe teamed up with another 15" woofer."

    Tom, that was called the Urei 811. They go for much less than vintage Altec 604s because they don't have the vintage mystique. There are probably those that swear that the Urei product was somehow inferior to the Altec, but most informed listeners would agree that the Urei was a definite step forward and still there is little demand for them. I agree with your premise, but I doubt there is a market for it big enough to support the tooling effort and set up costs.

    Personally I think a new Altec Model 19 might do well in very small numbers for the high efficiency set.

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    Re: New Poll At My Altec User's Board, And I'd Like YOUR Opinions!

    Originally posted by Todd W. White
    No matter WHAT the brand name USED to be
    Beside the fact you can consider building, whatever you will sell, in China, you also consider not marketing the items with the ALTEC LANSING name printed on it, just follow my advice:

    FORGET IT.

    I am in the audio industry since more than 25 years now and building a name is very difficult.

    Who leads the market?

    Old brands do! Can you write down more than 5 brands launched in the past 15 years?

    NO.

    From what I know the brand ALTEC LANSING is not for sale!

    If it is just let me know as I'm ready to buy it back and launch back the ALTEC LANSING legend as there is still something left about it (I know several fellow guys involved in the luxury market that will help me to get it out of the world of darkness).

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Mister Widget

    "Tom, that was called the Urei 811. They go for much less than vintage Altec 604s because they don't have the vintage mystique."

    I have a JBL based 811C "clone" and it is one nice sounding system and you can get them cheap if you keep your eyes open.


    I would like to see the last version of the ALtec Coax available. But I have to agree it may not be viable. You are seeing more and more on Ebay don't know if it is because they are comming to the end of life or are just being replaced with newer better smaller monitors.

    Now this whole made in China thing. There is nothing at all wrong with stuff made in China. My company just set-up a factory there and I got to help with the set-up and was over there about 18 months ago. Motorola, HP, Palm they are all there in a big way. The only problem is raw materials, training and infrastructure such as machine shops. The bottom line is if the company going over does the factory set-up and training right you will get good product. This whole "Made in Japan" attitude is not waranted. The workmanship can be excellent.

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    Originally posted by Robh3606
    Now this whole made in China thing. There is nothing at all wrong with stuff made in China. My company just set-up a factory there and I got to help with the set-up and was over there about 18 months ago. Motorola, HP, Palm they are all there in a big way. The only problem is raw materials, training and infrastructure such as machine shops. The bottom line is if the company going over does the factory set-up and training right you will get good product. This whole "Made in Japan" attitude is not waranted. The workmanship can be excellent.
    Lets meet again in 2-3 years time and I doubt you will have the same words!

    As a manufacturer, I have no needs manufacturing my amplifiers in China as one the box is made and the transformers winded we need less than an hour to place all the components on the PCB, have it soldered, place the heat sink with the output power devices, check the board, build the amplifier, test it and place it in his box.

    www.poshing.com.cn

    Read their price list too...

    I have a lot of other examples, just think about it guys (are you aware that now that Mackie was sold to some invertors they are now closing on of the factory just to get build their items in China too?).

    I met several professional end users in fairs, all of them are asking me: Yuri, are your amplifiers built in China? If there are just shake hands and good-bye, if not let’s have a talk together.

    It means that they do not want any amplifiers made in far east countries!

    White collars lying in their office knowing nothing more than the word immediate profit means are driving all those companies to bankrupt.

    In the close future they will of course earn more money, but will collapse in the next decade.

    There is a huge crisis in the audio industry, several companies are passing from hands to other hands, and some will soon close …

    The survivors will rule, I hope so, the market.

    I doubt any manufacturer manufacturing in countries such as China will ever.

    This is my personal opinion.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Yuri

    "Lets meet again in 2-3 years time and I doubt you will have the same words!"

    With all due respect unless you have been there to China and have actually seen the factories going up and had a chance to look at the finished goods right off the line your really don't know. You are working on other peoples opinions and have not had the first hand experience to form your own. I am not suggesting that you do or that your opion is not valid. Just that you should be more opened minded. Their Audio industry may not be mature but they will have a big advantage with the technology being given to them with free training. I work in the Time and Frequency business and do a lot of wireless work. The multinationals are going to China for labor cost issues. They are also looking at a huge potential market where they get incentives from the government for manufacturing there. First one in the door gets a great advantage in future market share. Every single Disco/Night Club that I was in used JBL Pro speakers. Bad business move?? I think not.

    'As a manufacturer, I have no needs manufacturing my amplifiers in China'

    Granted you may not. If you can stay competitive and support the volume at home no reason to go elsewhere. If you are in a low volume niche you probably have nothing to worry about. They won't bother with a small market share venture. No $$$$$

    "I met several professional end users in fairs, all of them are asking me: Yuri, are your amplifiers built in China? If there are just shake hands and good-bye, if not let’s have a talk together."

    Substitute Japan for China and go back 30 years. Same mentallity about Japan in the 70's. Look where that got them. Almost cost the US their auto industry. How does Japan stand in the Electronics industry today? Do not underestimate their potential.

    Just my opinion too.

    Rob

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    Originally posted by Robh3606
    Substitute Japan for China and go back 30 years. Same mentallity about Japan in the 70's. Look where that got them. Almost cost the US their auto industry. How does Japan stand in the Electronics industry today? Do not underestimate their potential.
    Hello Rob,

    The main difference is that Japan tried and achieved becoming a regular leader in economy, and in the 70’s they were just trying their best by copying!

    With China the main difference (you as other think that you will have their market, but you do not know oriental mentality) is that you are giving them for free your knowledge to get their “low cost” labour!

    By the way there are a lot of other countries with low labour in the world (Sri Lanka).

    What people like you (it is not pejorative) do not know yet is that you will NEVER get their market.

    It is not because you see one or two clubs with JBL Pro speakers that all of them will get them in the future!

    This is just to let you think that you will have it, but never Europeans or Americans will have the market as it will be held, witch is normal (people are so cupid that they are ready to swallow everything) by themselves!

    It means that they had for free our technology, we trained them too, and they even made a little money by selling us back what they built cheaper than others.

    Chinese are not idiot and they take what we are giving them for free and will keep all the benefit.

    This what I am against!

    I am not against any type of economy in China.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Giskard


    "White collars lying in their office knowing nothing more than the word immediate profit means are driving all those companies to bankrupt."

    "In the close future they will of course earn more money, but will collapse in the next decade."

    Quite true, they are more than simply willing to mortgage all our children's futures, they are actually doing it. And doing it with reckless abandon.

    "I doubt any manufacturer manufacturing in countries such as China will ever."

    I disagree. I believe as America and Europe continue to sell off their long term futures for the fruits of today China will rise to dominate the globe. In fact, I have no doubt about it given current events.

    Unfortunately I must fully agree with what you are saying Giskard.

    I don't blame the Chinese at all. They are a relatively poor nation with millions of people willing to work hard to improve their situation. Of course there are laundry lists of problems in China and many are real threats to individual's human rights as well as the global environment. I hope and expect the improved living conditions brought about their economic gains will create an internal pressure to improve both these areas.

    The real issue as I see it is the trashing of good companies to make a quarterly profit that has been far too prevalent in American business for quite a while now. Exporting jobs is a problem, but it is an extremely complex one that I don't think anyone fully understands the global macro economic impact. Our current tack is leading to a nation that creates intellectual property and provides services with little or no physical production. (Yes we still have a manufacturing base, but it shrinks each year.) We can't assume that this direction can be held indefinitely. Despite our arrogance to the contrary we don't hold all the world's best minds within our borders. It is not like a vast pool of oil sitting under Texas... oh yeah we've depleted that one. Ok I'm really about to go off the deep end.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Yuri



    "It means that they had for free our technology, we trained them too, and they even made a little money by selling us back what they built cheaper than others.

    Chinese are not idiot and they take what we are giving them for free and will keep all the benefit.

    This what I am against!"

    Oh yes we are with both hands!! I don't like it either. I have to agree with down the road it could get real rough.


    "What people like you (it is not pejorative) do not know yet is that you will NEVER get their market.'

    We may tempoarilly which is all the bean counters are concerned about not 10yrs from now when they have the technology and no incentive to buy from us. So again I agree you can never predict what's going to happen. If Japan is the model we are screwed.


    Hello Mr Widget

    "(Yes we still have a manufacturing base, but it shrinks each year.) We can't assume that this direction can be held indefinitely."

    You could not have said it better. My friend is a machinist. We were talking last year and I asked him what the future was in his profession if a kid was interested. He said "well let's see, no trade schools to speak of and no one coming up as apprentices" because there was no one doing them anymore. As far as he could tell they were all going for the money and didn't want to get there hands dirty. He is in his 40's. Scarry!! Don't know about what you guys do but a good machinist can be worth his weight in Gold for us.

    Try to find a job for a young kid?? I was working when I was 12 with a paper route. My son can't even get a paper route have adults doing it now. I used to cut lawns ,rake and shovel snow. Can't cut lawns now either have lawn services doing that. So how can a kid learn a work ethic with no jobs, no apprenticeships??? Yeah as a parent I can help but nothing is like a real job.

    Rob

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    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    Well, here goes my long rant about this subject - just remember: you guys started this, not me - I just asked a question!

    Sadly, what Giskard and Mr. Widget say are true - the U.S. is losing it's manufacturing base RAPIDLY!

    The thing that floors me is that the government is allowing it -- NAFTA & GATT are killing us!

    Some say, "Well, why not go over there? After all, it will open up whole new markets for our goods!"

    The thing that crowd seems to miss is this: WHAT THINGS DO WE MAKE IN THE U.S.A. THAT THE POOR PEOPLE IN CHINA, SRI LANKA, MEXICO, ETC., CAN AFFORD????"

    The answer is: NOTHING!!!!

    None of the common laborers in the underdeveloped countries can AFFORD to buy our products, and, when we move our factories overseas (thanks to the generosity of the Overseas Development Fund of the U.S. government, which PAYS companies to shut down their factories here and move offshore), then WE have NO way to manufacture them HERE, which hurts everyone HERE!

    Witness the recent revelation that BOEING is going have 30% of it's new airplane made in JAPAN!

    What would happen if the Korean Communists take over Japan, how will we get parts for our planes?

    The day is coming, I fear, when America will be caught with it's pants down, and now way to defend itself - WE'RE LOSING THE WAR THAT IS BEING FOUGHT FOR OUR BORDERS, OR LANGUAGE, AND OUR VERY CULTURE ITSELF!!!!

    Now, what does that have to do with speakers?

    EVERYTHING!

    You see, when WE cannot make loudspeakers (or anything else, for that matter) in THIS country, WE are the ones who lose!

    Parts, service, long-term product support - all of these things have to be handled HERE, and if the products are made SOMEWHERE ELSE, how can it help US, long-term?

    The answer is, IT CAN'T!

    If anyone is going to make REAL, HIGH-QUALITY loudspeaker products, the BEST place to do it is HERE!

    Not in Communist China!

    Not in Mexico!

    Not in Sri Lanka!

    Not in Malaysia!


    And, pardon me, but not even in Japan!

    Or anywhere else, for that matter!

    This is not some bit of racist bigotry, far from it! This comes from a desire to see our country survive! Without the United States, the whole world economic system would COLLAPSE, and OUR economic system czan NOT survive without a strong manufacturing base!

    Someone says, "Well, we're turning into a SERVICE oriented economy now, so we don't need to have all of the manufacturing doen here, like we used to."

    BUNK!

    Let me ask you who believe that the U.S. economy can survive without the strong manufacturing base that we once had two questions:

    1. HOW can we afford to pay for what we need to buy if no one can afford our "services"?

    The bulk of the world is poor, and will remain poor! So, pray tell me,

    2. HOW are people who make ONE DOLLAR A DAY going to be able to afford to pay US for our services?

    The answer is THEY CAN'T!

    We need to be building EVERYTHING we need HERE, and elect politicians who will keep their sworn duty to preserve, defend, and protect the Constitution of the United States, and provide for the common defense of the people of the United States by protecting our markets from being flooded with cheap products built by, albeit hard working, people from countries where there IS NO -

    > OSHA
    > EPA
    > FDA
    > etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum

    Our country is losing ground daily in the manufacturing arena, and the speaker industry is another casualty of the ongoing attack on America!

    Don't believe me?

    When was the last time you could buy an AMERICAN MADE television set? I have two Zenith's, made in Springfield, Missouri: Zenith was the last company to stop making the here in the USA.

    Who would have thought that the country that INVENTED TELEVISION would cease one day to make them?

    How about home stereo?

    Name the last manufacturer of REAL home hi-fi equipment that is made HERE and is available to the general public in outlet stores!

    How about radio's? Where are the companies like -

    > Zenith?
    > Philco?
    > Hallicrafters?
    > Crosley?
    > RCA?
    > H. H. Scott?
    > Majestic?
    > Silvertone?
    > National?
    > Atwater Kent?
    > E. F. Johnson?
    > Motorola?
    > Etc.....


    If they still exist, they're not made HERE!

    For crying out loud, you can't even buy a wristwatch that is made in America anymore! Elgin, Illinois, which was home to the Elgin watch company, is a shadow of it's former self, now that there are no watches being made here!

    How about alarm clocks?

    Shoes? - My Converse All-Stars, which I have worn all my life, are now being made in INDONESIA!!!! Why? Because the U.S. government PAID Converse to CLOSE their AMERICAN factory and move it there!

    How about Hershey bars?

    Are you aware that HERSHEY doesn't make their candy anymore? It's all done by outside vendors - THEY USE OEM COMPANIES TO MAKE THEIR CANDY!!!!!

    If you knew how much of the the parts for the speakers and speaker systems that say "Made In The U.S.A." come from overseas, it would make you SICK!

    No, beloved, we need and MUST build SOMETHING here in the U.S.A., even if we are the ONLY ones who do it!
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

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    Originally posted by Todd W. White
    No, beloved, we need and MUST build SOMETHING here in the U.S.A., even if we are the ONLY ones who do it!
    Todd,

    Why do I claim that PSS is the world's N°1 French amplifier?

    By the way, what about the brand ALTEC LANSING as, if you cannot it stick it on the goods, in my opinion, it us useless starting building wherever you want whatever you plan to sell!

    Unless it is for sale again…

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    Originally posted by PSS AUDIO
    By the way, what about the brand ALTEC LANSING as, if you cannot it stick it on the goods, in my opinion, it us useless starting building wherever you want whatever you plan to sell!
    By the way, what about the brand ALTEC LANSING as, if you cannot stick it on the goods, in my opinion, it is useless starting building wherever you want whatever you plan to sell!

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    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    At this point, Sparkomatic (oops - I mean "Altec Lansing Technologies")owns the ALtec Lansing brand name.

    HOWEVER - I have known of severe infighting inside the company for some time, and heard recently that a large number of their Milford employees were fired. I am trying to verify this as I write.

    As far as having the AL brand name on the products -

    1. I agree that it would help sales tremendously, but

    2. Sparkomatic (aka "Altec Lansing Technologies") has done a LOT to damage the reputation of the marque, and, in so doing, is alienating a lot of the loyalists. Not only that, but their "pro" line is not doing as well as they hoped, I'm told.

    3. I think the REAL issue is that of QUALITY: Quality of design, quality of manufacture, quality of service, and, of course, quaility as it pertains to performance. If a customer KNOWS that he is buying, for example a REAL 416, made by former Altec employees on the REAL tooling that was used to make the old ones, with the same (or better) QUALITY as Altec did, I think they will buy them, anyway!

    4. IF the day should come when Sparkomatic (oops - I meant "Altec Lansing Technologies" again) lets go of the name, for whatever reason, then it WOULD, I agree, be nice to get the name back and treat it properly.
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

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