Yes its interesting but these type of driver not intended for anything other than mid range, not mid bass per say, the 2123 is best used sealed in clusters and horn loading.
You would be better served by a 2118H from 150-1100, alternatively a 2220 from 100-300hz then the 2123.
The Doctor
Originally Posted by geowal3
On the thread below Don McRitchie quotes Drew Daniels in posts #1 and #5 to the effect that he tries to dissuade people from building his high efficiency system in favor of buying LSR32's (and adding a 2245 subwoofer). He is specifically talking about an HT setup, apparently. This, and also the fact that Greg Timbers was quoted as saying something similar were important factors in my deciding to buy a pair of LSR32's on ebay having never heard them. They have been very satisfactory.
David
The thread:
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbull...highlight=drew
Would'nt the same coments apply to the 2012H as well? Isn't it just an updated version of the 2123?
I'm curious to know what others feel is the best approach to a three-way system. Woofer, large format horn and tweeter, or handling the midrange with a cone and then a horn for the highs.
Of the 10" drivers the 2122 has the best lowend performance. The 2123 is smoother above 1.5-2K and a bit more extended as well as significantly more sensitive. These are in sealed enclosures. For me the 2118, 10's/12's cone mids are the way to go with a 1" compression driver.
Rob
Just a few ideas from someone who was also inspired by that article
Building the Drew Daniels system Pro’s
It’s Fun
It’s a challenge
You learn a lot
You can end up with a nice sounding system
and Con’s
Lot’s of surprises
It can be a bit of work
You can end up with a not so nice sounding system
It depends what you put into it and what your goals are. If you want audiophile nirvana with imaging so good you can hear the players shift in their chairs stop now. If you want a system that has excellent clarity, terrific dynamics and a vehicle to learn it’s a great experience.
I built my first “version “with 2035’s 2122’s 2416/2344 with subs under and with passive networks based on the article. That changed to an all active set-up with E-145’s 2123 2416/2344 with subs under. If you look at just the drivers it could be called a glorified PA system however it doesn’t sound like one because it’s not just the drivers you have to look and think of the whole system and design it up like that. There is a lot of work like driver layout, tuning’ driver selection, crossover slopes and points and so on. What EQ’s what crossovers, analog or digital, what amps, how much power and on and on. After this I also built a couple of “reference” speakers as comparisons and as references for future projects. Comparing my references XPL-200A and 4344 to my Daniels system a couple of things become apparent. They are all remarkably similar in the sense that they sound like JBL’s if that makes any sense. They all have remarkable clarity and excellent dynamics and are all very well balanced when you put the time in with proper set-up. That said I understand where Drew is coming from. If I had to choose the one with the best overall balance of all as far as imaging’ dynamics, lack of compression it would be the XPL-200 clones. I imagine the LSR’s would be even better. Where the XPL’s get beat is the sense of sheer power the larger systems can project, other than that I think they have the best balance of performance compromises. That said if you feel the urge to build you should. You won’t regret trying to build it however you will regret not trying.
Rob
I must admit that I got into building my own speaker systems as a result of reading Drew Daniels' articles, and in fact, I did borrow some of his design ideas for the speakers I finally built. I read about his systems years before I made my first box primarily because I didn't feel I had the skills necessary to make it sound good. What changed for me was my acquisition of a digital speaker controller. This unit made it possible for me to mix and match speaker elements, crossing them over with virtually any type of slope, and tailoring their responses with a flexible parametric EQ. There is also no need to physically time align the drivers, that function is accomplished by a built in digital delay. I know some people don't care for the sound of these units, but after playing around extensively with high quality film caps and air core coil passive crossovers, I will never go back to them.
You'll see fantastic solutions later this year or early next year. They won't be cheap and they will be killer.
Damn straight.
Nor should you if you are lucky enough to find a solution that negates the use of any speaker level passive components. They really are terrible devices.
If starting from scratch today I would personally opt for the Performance Series instead. LSR6332's would be second choice though, although depending on total cost they might move into top spot.
BTW - pay attention to Drew's warnings. His systems in a typical home have the very real potential to fry your hearing before you know what the hell happened.
the lady in the flower pot
Ha! Ha! You very funny!
ABSOLUTELY! That's why we build DIY projects! I suppose I was just being cautionary... the Daniels System is not really the cookbook design it may seem on the surface.
BTW... speaking of DIY, I think I have found the, "If you want audiophile nirvana with imaging so good you can hear the players shift in their chairs...and a system that has excellent clarity, terrific dynamics..."It has only taken me 30 years and buckets of money!
Widget
It has only taken me 30 years and buckets of money!
Patience and persistance.
Yes, with digital system controllers, for SR, I believe we've been there for awhile. With upsampling at 24/192 digital processors may have reached a threshold where many more people will find them a better option even for home hi fi. But as Giskard points out, there is the cost. For awhile at least, I think there will still be people willing to struggle with the old technology of passive and active analogue filters, especially if we can keep the network wizards around to help us.
Despite my having the LSR32's to listen to I share your interest in the larger systems. I am, though, a little puzzled by using a 2012 for hi fi. Though out of production it is still possible to put together a 2122, a 10" mid/bass that was purpose designed for monitor applications. If you want a current production model, I think the 2051 neodymium 10", which is used in the 4348, would be worth a look.
David
OK, I'm game! Where the heck do I get a couple of 2051s? I thought the 4348 was just available in Japan, but can you buy them (and parts) from JBL in the US?
The 2051 has been on the Transducer list at JBL Pro Customer service for quite a while now. As for the other parts, NOT. Giskard always suggests calling and asking anyway.
(Incidentally, the link to the Transducer List at JBL Pro is not working for me right now; it's crashing my browser.)
David
Do yo happen to know the part number for the 2051? I checked JBL's transducer parts listing, and I didn't see it. I called JBL parts and they don't list it. I can see them pictured in photos of the 4348, though. Is there another list? Thanks!
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te.../4348%20ts.pdf
Do we mean 2251?
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