Tube Stuff?

[JBLROCKS]

I am interested in getting into "tube equipment" but I dont know much about it.
Any input appreciated.

[Wardsweb]

There is a lot to learn when making the journey into tubes. This post is like trying to tell someone how to design a speaker when they have only heard them. But here are some basics: on average you will spend twice as much for a tube watt than a solid state watt. Single ended triode (SET) amps for the most part are low power. Push-Pull will give you more power, but for some people, at the cost of a different sound. Unless your spending big bucks for big power, you will will need efficient speakers. Ok you just read the inside cover of War & Peace, now you have a lot of reading. Good Luck, have fun and remember it's about the music.

[SUPERBEE]

I am interested in getting into "tube equipment" but I dont know much about it.
Any input appreciated.

My preference is vintage McIntosh. I am partial to the MC75 mono blocks. You will need a good tube pre-amp as well. The McIntosh C20, C22, And the MX110 are all very good.

Not only do these gems sound warm and wonderful. They look BITCHIN and seem to hold or go up in value.

I would suggest listening to as many tube systems as you can and purchasing what sounds best to you. Thats what I did and it was the best money I ever spent.

[Ian Mackenzie]

What speakers are you running?

That will sginificantly narrow you options. Make sure you play it on your system before you buy.

The Mac's are nice, so are the Cary's and Conrad Johnsons. There is a growing trickle of impressive stuff coming out the China too and the quality appears reasonable. Buy new or only from a friend you struck and stay away from the Ebay junk...Quads, re built Mullards and Dynaco's.

Once you enter tubes, it becomes a tweakers paradise and a pure tasters delight. Switching from Pentode to Triode etc.

A half way house might be some of the AR's, fet/tube, they are also impressive.

Ian

[spkrman57]

I like the option of both types of amplification, Solid state for summer time when the AC is already fighting the heat/humidity, and in winter time I like my little space heaters"!

I use a group of tube amps for my 97db/watt 2-ways. I have a MC-240 for "CRANKING", and then I opt for either my Almorro A205 (6BQ5 SEP), Norh SE-9 (EL34 SEP), and for total finesse and all out cool amp, Yamamoto (45 SET). The Yamamoto at a screaming 1.8 watts/chnl is a real sleeper.

Most folks would never consider 2 watts to make much impact and deliver enough power to impress with only 97db/watt. With my Edgarhorns running off 2 watt/chnl the PE Titanic 12 powered sub shut down(thermally) trying to keep up. It is equipped with a 250 watt amp, but with a 91db driver shows how important high efficiency really is.

I just put together a new crossover with all new parts and I am using a repaired/modded Sansui AU-7900 (75 watt/chnl) SS integrated amp. While the SS amp will play with much more "slam and dynamics", I miss the smooth, "laid-back" sound of my tube gear. Once I get some more hours on the crossover, I will revert back to my tube gear again.

A lot of what your requirements are music wise, the efficiency of your speakers, and what kind of tube amp you use(I am partial to "single-ended" type tube amps) will determine if tube gear is right for you.

If you can visit someone with a similiar system who has tubes already, you can judge for yourself. I for one can live with 2 watt/chnl and 97 db. If I need more, I will fetch out one of my other more powerful amps to play.

Ron

[lodoc]

Since this a general question on tube amps...
I have been running a MC 240 for several years in my shop. The certified MacIntosh technician that went thru this amp and brought it back to life said in gereral just leave it on 24/7. It's been on for over 2 yrs now. I realize it's just
'one mans opinion' so I would like to hear from others on the subject of turning it on and off vs. leaving it on continuously. Any thoughts from the group?

[JBLROCKS]

Wow thanks for all the input!

Question #2...If I decide to buy a tube amp or two I have to buy a seperate Pre-Amp (volume tone controls etc) wouldnt I? Isnt a tube amp just that?

Thanks again

[Steve Schell]

JBLROCKS, you are going to have fun with tube gear almost regardless of what you start with. There is a tangibly real quality to the sound of tube gear that just seems to escape solid state gear somehow. Building your own gear offers many rewards, including the best sound for the money. My preference is for the startlingly alive sound of simple directly heated triode circuits, especially transformer coupled and battery biased. The parts count in an amplifier built this way is very low, and the signal can almost completely avoid being dragged through capacitors and high value resistors. Some advanced audiomaniac constructors prefer high voltage transmitting triodes and thoriated tungsten filaments, but a simple 45 or 2A3 amp will be mighty tasty and simple to build. You have a leg up in using JBL speakers, as their high sensitivity relaxes the power requirements.

Lots of good discussion over on the Audio Asylum Tube/DIY board and the other AA tube related boards. Steve Bench's site provides tons of both basic and advanced tube circuit info; It is located at:

http://members.aol.com/sbench101/

[JBL Dog]

My preference is vintage McIntosh. I am partial to the MC75 mono blocks. You will need a good tube pre-amp as well. The McIntosh C20, C22, And the MX110 are all very good.

Not only do these gems sound warm and wonderful. They look BITCHIN and seem to hold or go up in value.

I would suggest listening to as many tube systems as you can and purchasing what sounds best to you. Thats what I did and it was the best money I ever spent.

I use a McIntosh MC240 amp with a C22 pre-amp to power a Metregon. I had the units serviced a few years ago. The amp needed a few capacitors. The pre-amp is in perfect condition and still has all the original Telefunken tubes. I had it clenaed and the glass was replaced. I'm very pleased with the results. The speaker and the Mc gear were purchased from an estate in California in 2001. Agreed, the value of these pieces continues to rise to ridiculous levels, which is okay with me!

[Bernard Wolf]

Since this a general question on tube amps...
I have been running a MC 240 for several years in my shop. The certified MacIntosh technician that went thru this amp and brought it back to life said in gereral just leave it on 24/7. It's been on for over 2 yrs now. I realize it's just
'one mans opinion' so I would like to hear from others on the subject of turning it on and off vs. leaving it on continuously. Any thoughts from the group?

I would never leave a tube power amp on permanently. In fact, according to my technician I shouldn't even leave the room. I know what he means by that as I have been in the room twice when I lost the sound in one channel, looked over at the amp and saw an output tube flaming into red.... three guesses what I did ... turn it off!!! I wonder what would happen if you just left it like that overnight to cook

As for a pre-amp with small signal tubes there may be somethiing to be said about leaving them on 24/7. I once read where Tim Pavarachini did a test and found that leaving them on all the time increased their life span as opposed to turning them on and off.

Bernard

[Bernard Wolf]

Wow thanks for all the input!

Question #2...If I decide to buy a tube amp or two I have to buy a seperate Pre-Amp (volume tone controls etc) wouldnt I? Isnt a tube amp just that?

Thanks again

You can always go with an integrated tube amp and bypass the need for a pre-amp. Some say separates are better, others think a properly executed integratred is better.. depends on the combo I guess. I use a Jadis DA30 integrated 6550 P/P amp but I do need a seperate Phono pre as the Jadis does not have a phono stage. This will be the stumbling block. If you need a phono stage a modern one would be best and good ones are not cheap, at which point a full function pre-amp mated to a power amp may make more sense.

There certainly are some interesting vintage integrated amps with phono sections out there though.

Bernard

[Mr. Widget]

There certainly are some interesting vintage integrated amps with phono sections out there though.

True enough... I have been disappointed with vintage preamps myself. We have become accustomed to much higher signal to noise ratios and the older equipment typically has a fairly high noise floor. Forty years ago you couldn't get away from noisy records and tapes so there was little need for extremely quiet designs. Many of today's audiophile LPs are significantly quieter than many of the older records, and if you do play a CD it will become even more obvious.

Widget

[bigredplane]

As for a pre-amp with small signal tubes there may be somethiing to be said about leaving them on 24/7. I once read where Tim Pavarachini did a test and found that leaving them on all the time increased their life span as opposed to turning them on and off.

Bernard[/QUOTE]

The average life span of a tube is 5000 to 10,000 hours no if and or buts. So Now you do the math 10,000 divide 24/7= short. Turn them off

[bigredplane]

There is a lot to learn when making the journey into tubes. This post is like trying to tell someone how to design a speaker when they have only heard them. But here are some basics: on average you will spend twice as much for a tube watt than a solid state watt. Single ended triode (SET) amps for the most part are low power. Push-Pull will give you more power, but for some people, at the cost of a different sound. Unless your spending big bucks for big power, you will will need efficient speakers. Ok you just read the inside cover of War & Peace, now you have a lot of reading. Good Luck, have fun and remember it's about the music.

I love SET also nice amps Scott

[Bernard Wolf]

The average life span of a tube is 5000 to 10,000 hours no if and or buts. So Now you do the math 10,000 divide 24/7= short. Turn them off

I agree and thats why I always do turn off my pre, especially as I have an integrated amp and only use the pre for the phono stage. If I am not playing Lp's it does not go on.

However, Mr. Pavarachini came to the conclusion, by testing, that the constant on/off power surge on the tubes was more deleterious to life expectancy than just leaving them on. Who am I to argue ?... he is the "tube God", not me . I may try to find that article and if I do I will post it.

BTW, some claim (Vacuum Tube Valley, issue 14) that some Telefunken 12ax7 have a life of 100,000 hrs !!

Bernard