Help Needed to adjust 4312

[B&KMan]

Hi,

I would like advice on which pot (mid or high) should I adjust for the following instruments (I know some instruments spread across a wide spectrum, but I'm looking for the dominant spectrum in general) :

Thanks
david

bonjour bonjour (hello)

Sorrry for poor english.

Your problem is the same of all Lpad member of JBL communauty...

this is one point who guy tried and tried and tried and turn crazy... Why...

I tadd my voice for little explanation of few tip for more comprehension phenomenon...

The balance tonal is probably the most factor where minimum deviation is critical. In regards on the prev post, any harmoniques construction is affected, cable, macth component , position, angle, current, all affect this point. But the big major influence is room:

1--- the reverberation time and the linearity of this time at all frecuency affect dramasticely the tonal balance. (this is the first reason is impossible to give a receipt experience) to live area = put down pad) dead or big damping area = more higher pad...

the professionnal set-up is run pink noise in full range and keep multiple average positions around your sweet-spot.

YES dispendious but the difference is wow... more details more realistic, more everything...
Never your ear is equal this set-up... but if you play instrument; record you with reference material (the ultra flat response mic is critical) and playback on your system :-) the flavor, tone and acoustic detail is easy referenciel...

2--- the first 3 modal respons of room (in low frecency ) affect drasticly the tone and blend with the first problem ...

3--- if you listen the record, you have no information of acoustical response in recordind session and you have not idea what is right, of course the coarse placement is possible, but other record other set-up... and again a again change...

I remember the close to realistic set-up pad is possible with one slm and little sofware play a frecquency cut. You put your slm in 1.5 m in half position between two driver. play only one driver and check you slm value... add the second driver pad just just the vale is exact 3 db higher. the slm is no displacement and fixed in stand and your position is ideally same place but over a 1.5 m distance of meter. this is a good average position pot. probably 1 or 2 indent max deviation...

Good luck

Jean

[ngccglp]

Thanks Jean for the explanation. I think I will try to use pink noise the next time I meddle with the controls.

Q - To get pink noise I just need a tuner and not tune in to any station?

[Alex Lancaster]

You´ll get "white noise"; for pink You need a generator, lots of equalizers and RTA´s have them.

[Don Mascali]

http://www.nch.com.au/tonegen/

This site has an "evaluation" download of a tone generator that has pink noise and various wave forms. Can't beat the price.

[B&KMan]

Thanks Jean for the explanation. I think I will try to use pink noise the next time I meddle with the controls.

Q - To get pink noise I just need a tuner and not tune in to any station?

NO !!!

This type of FM generator sound is not consistent, maybe white, maybe pink not not equally in all band... but manys trace of other signal of other stations or interferences is hiddend by noise but false result.

The RTA is mesure the pink noise but if you have a Power Spectrum Density or Energy Spectrum density who have a set-up correction to mesure white noise...

the pink noise is easy to found in CD or in small freeWare on WWW the RTA and especially the mic is realy to hard and dispendious: couple of tousand US box for prime grade...

But the best is little sofware Is generate the sinewave or frequency cut and slm (anyway the quality, in half distance of the 2 driver... at 1.2 m you deliver a good average fine tune with hear... but no more one or 2 indent...

happy test...

[ngccglp]

Today I had time, so I moved the speakers to another room where I can postition the speakers nearer to the rear wall. What a difference it make! I was able to return the presence and brilliance setting back to the mid position and it was just about right. I think the 4312 needs a bit of back wall reinforcement to balance up the low frequency. Yes I lose a bit of the bass defintion but the overall sound is more balance. Cool!

[B&KMan]

Today I had time

HA AH !!

Well run the tuning in your ear...

in regards of your listening position:

check the level speaker incoherence is broken the image and the smash bass.

check carrefully the toe innner angle of speaker:
each very fine toe in altering drastiquely the focus and tonal balance...
10 to 15 degree is appear best..

check the symetrie for snap sound.


and check your listening position if your forward or back the tonal balance and snap is big change in regards of standing wave in room and the modal response combine at the effect of echoe amplitute and lineariry in regards of each location of material damping...

the room is the biggest factor is influence and modalise your response. so work work work..... more precise work more result great...



after your determine what is the spot where the less problem acoustic are, and focus and dymanic, now play your LPad for fine tune.

and restart over all again finest spiral tuning. and voila...

Oh I omit the spearker tuning is work in all dimension of the room so try different elevation of speaker and probably big surprise in regards of bass tuning...

the go good start principle is the premium number division of room size because it is minimise the standing wave... is not perfect but good start...

try a manual instruction of couple of JBL Speakers for coarse placements...

[Uncle Paul]

True Audio offers their level 1 RTA for free. It comes with a lot of features including signal and noise generators, plus the advantage of being able to see the response. All you need is a computer and a mike to use.

http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_down.htm

Don't know if it's as good as a professional unit, but the price is right and has lots of features.

[Mr. Widget]

I just checked out their site... can't argue with free, but at full octave resolution it isn't really terribly useful for really dialing in a system. I find 1/3 octave is really needed. Higher resolution and time windowing are also great, but typically cost a bit. They do offer 1/3 octave for $40 though and that is very reasonable. You must supply a mic. There are several affordable mics available on the market all based on the Panasonic capsule.

Widget

[B&KMan]

Don't know if it's as good as a professional unit, but the price is right and has lots of features.

Well , it is easy to found in WWW many software RTA... The type 1 is serious and suppose a sound card, cable mic and mic serious.

But in regards of reply of MR Widget, democratisation of mic and software RTA permit to build a serious idea what is what...

But the best is software with internal signal control of the central preocessor and response curse of acessory in especially the mic. Because the major mic is drop at Hight frequency... and is depend of the type of mic : free-field, pressure field, cardioid, etc,... condensor, pre-polarized, etc...
but if you have a signature of mic, you have a opportunity to ajust the response curve

Keep a particulary attention in tempeture and humidity who affect drastiquely the response ( depend of mic)

The free-field mic is generally bad random mic position, the pressure field is 90 degree oriented but more less sensitive direction sound.

But be carreful methodology is a secret of good records test... average in sufficient time (minimum 30 seconds) and many different spot... the average is the key... check ISO, ANSI, and other normalisation method...

the high end lab line product include 1/12 or 1/24 octave, all tool for average, system time for tolerance level, type of control of average, pink, white noise, etc, etc,

but the type octave is probably to slow for 1/3 in type 1 standart...
Be shure the appelation is controlled in accordance of internationnal standart.
to much product is not realy level or in yet as a crazy one set-up who the paramater is not consistent in regards at the application...
Let me know if know more...

is possible to build a test comparison for real material comparison.

[ngccglp]

According to George Augspurger, the mid control should be set to around 4, and the high control to about 7 for flat response, if I remember correctly.

I think Harvey Gerst is quite right about the setting. Today I did a very extensive A/B with my other system with the same song "Bad Company's Rock Steady" because I know this song inside out. It has a guitar solo in the middle to help me adjust the mid and during the solo, the drummer hit the crash in a very steady beat, and this helps me adjust the highs. I also used the vocals to adjust the mid to get the relative depth of the vocals.

Surprisingly, my controls ended up in about the same position as that described above. My mid is 3 and highs 7. However, I would like to qualify that I am not sure how flat is my reference system, its just that I have been listening to that system for the past 7 years and am quite satisfied with that balance.

OK back to music...Ready for Love is next...

[Guido]

If 5 is the factory default, then I think I have a major system mismatch.

Back to your initial question

I recently reworked a 4310 network and adjusted it to flat response.
Presence was 4 and brilliance was 5 at the end.

Sounded NOT right for me. After adjusting it to my hearing preference Presence was 3 and Brilliance was 2 at the end.

So, as Giskard wrote: Adjust to your own needs. Those old control monitors are a bit to forward at default settings.
Somewhere is a tech note regarding this subject "....choosing the right studio monitor...."
Have a search.