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Thread: Help Needed to adjust 4312

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Help Needed to adjust 4312

    Hi,

    I know the crossover freq for the 4312 is at 1.5 kHz and 6 kHz, but I am not really sure what instruments freq falls under which band of the audio freq spectrum, therefore I am having a hard time adjusting the mid and treble pots to suit my room (also don't quite understand what presence and brilliance means).

    I would like advice on which pot (mid or high) should I adjust for the following instruments (I know some instruments spread across a wide spectrum, but I'm looking for the dominant spectrum in general) :

    female vocals
    saxaphone
    hi hat and cymbals
    snare drum
    keyboards
    electric guitar

    I know this sounds crude but hopefully this info will help me fine tune the 4312 to my room. Currently it is too bright, but when I turn down the pots, some music lacks life etc.. I have been going to and fro without much success.

    Thanks
    david

  2. #2
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Brilliance is the HF pad, Presence is the MF pad.

    Somebody posted a cool link here recently which showed the frequency ranges for various instruments and voices. I looked, but can't find it for you.

    Bo?

    There's also a thread on adjusting L100 controls, with several approaches described. Use "Search" to find that one....

  3. #3
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    This is a very subjective area. It really is a case of when it sounds right it is right.

    "...also don't quite understand what presence and brilliance means."

    Presence is refering to the forward or recessed sound quality from bringing up or turning down the mids... Brilliance is refering to the highs as in extra brilliance would mean sound that shimmers or is overly siblent.

    Try setting both controls to the mid point of their rotation or 0dB if so labled. Try balancing the mid control (Presence) with the woofer first. When it seems natural try balancing the high control (Brilliance). Typically this will be a bit over bright when set at the mid point or 0dB. I find -1dB may be better.

    Widget

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys. I did search for 4312 but not L100 . Now I found the tread on L100 controls and printed the manual from Giskard. Will experiment later.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Don Mascali's Avatar
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    http://www.dplay.com/tutorial/freqpaint.html

    This has a chart with various instrument frequency ranges.
    4406, 4412A, L100, L100t3 (3 pair), L1, L7, 4645C, 4660A, 4695B, SR4735 and various DIY JBL Pro loaded systems.

  6. #6
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    Just completed adjusting the controls, but my readings are lower than most forum members. My mid is at 2 and High is at 3 (scale is 0 to 10). This could be due to: 1. My speaker is about 1 m from the rear wall and I'm about 2m away from the speakers, 2. I'm using naim amplification which is forward sounding.

    The chart is consistent with what I heard. I was surprised to discover the 12" woofer is producing a large proportion of every instrument, no wonder early JBL brochure says it is the heart of the 4312. I love the speed of the woofer, it is very fast and drums really has weight and snap. With the mid and Highs turned off, the music is still quite enjoyable. I slowly added the mid to add definition to the sound. Lastly I added the treble and tested it with vocals to check for sibilance and classic jazz to check the sparkle of the cymbals.

    If 5 is the factory default, then I think I have a major system mismatch.

  7. #7
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    Try not to get too caught up in what is default. Adjust to your taste and enjoy. I distinctly remember running more than one pair of JBL's with the mids and highs in the "2" to "3" range.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    Try not to get too caught up in what is default. Adjust to your taste and enjoy.


    And to Zilch's point - check-out this discussion on the Second Decade.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  9. #9
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    David:

    I hope with this post I'm not "over doing it" (I think you may already know this), but I'll go a little further.

    As you noticed with the chart MOST of the Fundamental notes are being produced by the woofer, HOWEVER, the sounds you hear from voices and musical instruments are composed of two basic elements( I'm not going into transients in this decussion):

    1. Fundamental notes - i.e. middle A ( 440 Kz); E (659 Hz); G ( 196 Hz). MOST fundamentals we hear in music is below 1600 Hz, but that's not where the story ends.

    2. Harmonics ( partials) - secondary vibrations of every note. It is the harmonics that really tell us what we are hearing. For example, if we look at the note E ( 659 Hz) as produced by a violin, it's fundamental is 659 Hz, BUT the harmonics of that note are ( I'm not exact but rounding off) ; 2th - 1300 Hz), 3rd - 2000; 4th - 2500; 5th 3300, 6th - 4000Hz; 7th -4800Hz;8th - 5600Hz; 9th 6100 Hz; 10th - 6800 Hz; 11th 7200Hz;12th 7800Hz;13th 8500 Hz;14th - 9500Hz; 15th - 10,000Hz

    Therefore, changing the present and brillance will mainly change the WAY you hear the music, because the full spectrum of the note E will be in all three speakers. It is the harmonics that really tell us what we are hearing; drum, trumpet, voice etc, also it's the harmonics that give a sound it's flavor. This is why I think that alot of people think that the new JBL speakers sound shrill ( Titanium tweeters), not only is it affecting the higher notes BUT every note from the speaker; voice, instructments etc. That's also why good crossovers are very important.

    Now, the second thing to look at is HOW the Mind hears. Human beings are designed to talk and range of the human voice is about 170 Hz to about 4000, most fundamentals are below 1000HZ. the mind ( or ear if you will) is most sensitive to around 3000 Hz. So it is mostly the harmonics that the mind is design to focus on to interpret what we are hearing. That's why the Mid's are call Presence, it's affects the most sensitive area where the mind intreprets the sound and affects the "lower" harmonics. The Brilliance will be affecting the "upper" harmonics.

    hope this helps

  10. #10
    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    I use a pair of 4312As and I turned down both the mid and tweeter controls a good bit...and added a small 12" JBL subwoofer, keeping the 4312 running full range, and the sound quite good!

    Tom

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    Thanks guys for all the advice. I'm letting my "confused" ears get used to the current setting before making further adjustments.

    Interesting Tom. May I know which model of the JBL sub you are using? Is the crossover freq adjustable to suit the 4312?

    Thanks.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    What JBLsince... is driving at, I believe, is the importance of overtones and harmonics in our hearing. The chart below (credit KlarkTeknik DN370 manual) only shows the primary frequency range for tones. In the case of vocals, the 3kHz to 8kHz range is infinately important to intelligibility - to presence and diction.

    Anyway, follow - as per usual - Giskard's advice: Adjust the L-pads to taste, and enjoy!
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    bo

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  13. #13
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam
    Anyway, follow - as per usual - Giskard's advice: Adjust the L-pads to taste, and enjoy!
    While dwelling on the frequencies of specific instruments and charts like this one (which is similar to this one from a mid 70's Altec catalog) is interesting... ultimately it is best to trust your ears and use them to make your adjustments.

    Widget
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  14. #14
    Your Memory Lives On RIP Tom Loizeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngccglp
    ...Interesting Tom. May I know which model of the JBL sub you are using? Is the crossover freq adjustable to suit the 4312?

    Thanks.
    I use a JBL PB12. I set it up so the full input signals run to the 4312s as well. Then I bring up the frequency until I feel the sub is adding too much to what the 4312s are putting out in the low end. Then I lower the sub's "crossover" a little and then dial down the volume of the sub until it fits into the overall sound just right. The sub is bearly working, but if I turn it off, I notice a loss in the low end.
    There are better subs out there, but since I need so little in this application, I find the PB12 to be plenty.

    Tom

  15. #15
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    "What JBLsince... is driving at, I believe, is the importance of overtones and harmonics in our hearing"

    Exactly.... that and the fact that the full spectrum of any single note made by a person or musical instrument has many harmonics ( overtones) and these run thur all speakers ( woofers, mids, tweeters).

    a simply way to understand this is to unhook the tweeter and mid and listen to the woofer. as one then hooks back the mid range the sound becomes more clear and then hook up the tweeter it all comes to play.

    But, bottom-line is as our local genius Giskard said: "Adjust the L-pads to taste, and enjoy!"

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