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Thread: Iconic Mfg. Co. to Exhibit @ Great Plains AudioFest in Tulsa 4/29-5/1!

  1. #1
    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Iconic Mfg. Co. to Exhibit @ Great Plains AudioFest in Tulsa 4/29-5/1!

    Hello Friends!

    I am pleased to announce that Iconic Mfg. Co. will be exhibiting at the



    in Tulsa April 29 - May 1, 2005!

    More information about the GPAF can be found here:

    GREAT PLAINS AUDIOFEST

    We will be demonstrating the STONEHENGE V SYSTEM that uses the newly re-designed ICONIC MODEL 704-8A COMPOUND LOUDSPEAKER!!!

    In addition, we will be showing the several Iconic drivers, horns, and woofers (one of which is a BRAND NEW DESIGN), and some croosovers!

    If you are or will be in the NE Oklahoma area on those dates, come by and see us!

    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

  2. #2
    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Pic's of Iconic Mfg.'s Demo Room @ the GPAF in Tulsa 04/30/05!

    Hello friends,

    Here are some pic's of Iconic's demo room at the Great Plains AudioFest in Tulsa (April 30, 2005):

    1. Here's a view from the hallway (we were right in front of the elevator's):




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    2. Here's a view from the far side of the room. The STONEHENGE V's were our showcase items:


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    3. Here's another view of the demo table (kind of dark - sorry):


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    4. A closer view of one of the STONEHENGE V systems (also kind of dark):


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    5. A close-up of some of the static items we displayed. In the far right foreground is the ICONIC MODEL 704-8A with it's newly re-designed - and much improved - magnetic structure. The far right top unit is a Model 127-8A 12" direct radiator woofer. To it's left at the top is the Model 168-8A 16" Hi-Fidelity Woofer, and to the left front is a Model 145-8A Large Format Compression Driver with a Pascalite diaphragm. In the far left top corner is the Model 165-8G 16" Bass Horn Driver. Oh - and that's an Altec Model 711A FM Receiver from 1965 powering the Stonehenge V's - everyone loved it, and how NICE it sounded!:


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    6. Another shot from the far end of the demo area. Note the Ella triode (tube) amp we tested (wonderful!):


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    The STONEHENGE V's sounded EXCELLENT - very transparent and effortless in their ability to reproduce even the slightest nuances in the program material!

    "The Bass Is Back!"

    When playing the 4th cut of the soundtrack from "Star Trek - The Motion Picture", you could FEEL the 52" bass drum as the percussionist played it the Jerry Goldsmith score! Whenever anyone heard it, their eyes would get wide and a big smile would come upon their face - it was impressive!

    My sons and a friend went around for about 3 hours looking and listening to the systems and the comments from the attendees. According to their reports, most everyone thought the Stonehenge V's with their 704-8A's were the best sounding speakers there.

    We had a good time and met a lot of nice people, and are looking forward to the next show - perhaps the Chicago Horn Club and/or the Rocky Mtn. AudioFest in Denver.
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

  3. #3
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Todd, need a pic of some drivers posted here...

    Do you have any GP 399 drivers you can post photo to on this forum??? I have the drivers and don't have any way to post photos as my PC is nearly shot and dead.

    Some members would like to see detailed photos of the 399!!!

    Thanks, Ron

    PS: Your website did not show any pics of that driver. I got them from Bill at GP
    They are nice sounding 1.4" drivers, running them on 311-60 horns until I
    find some nice wooden tractix horns that won't cripple my financial
    situation.

  4. #4
    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    399's

    I'll be making new photo's of the 399 shortly. E-mail me directly and I'll send them when they're ready.

    Incidentally - the website is being revamped and updated this week: we plan to have everything finished by this time next Monday.
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

  5. #5
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Todd

    Would be nice if you could post on this forum as I don't have a properly operating "photo-shop" to post here on the forum.

    There are some folks who would like to see what I have and my only pics with them are hard to see and on another forum.

    With Bill being the only one putting out larger compression drivers(new construction) that don't break the bank acct, it might prove worthwhile to post pics here!!!

    Thanks, Ron

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    For those of us not quite as immersed in Altec as yourself could you give us a bit more info on your drivers. For example is 704-8A your designation for the reincarnation of the 604 series or was there a 704 produced? Is that a plastic Mantaray horn or something else?

    I believe you have discussed this before, but are these components using original Altec tooling or have you made new tools based on original production parts? Where are you producing these components?

    Glad to hear they are sounding good, those drivers are looking good too!

    Widget

  7. #7
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Question for Mr Widget.

    Are you referring to a reference list to the older Altec line of drivers with a euivalent Iconic model nr.

    I think that would be very helpful to most of us who would be interested in Iconic products. But without knowing what they are(referenced to the older Altec models), I am reluctant to open my wallet right away.

    I will say that if Bill at GP supplies Iconic with drivers, hard to go wrong.

    I have bought from GP: pair of 416C's/902B's/399's (modern day 288K)

    I am very happy with the craftmanship and Bill is very helpful at answering questions referring to application.

    Todd, I apologize in advance if I am stepping on your toes and hijacking your thread. If I am out of line, just say so!!!!

    Ron

  8. #8
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
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    I am curious about the changes to the magnet structure on the 704. Can you elaborate?
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  9. #9
    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    Iconic 704-8A

    The Iconic Model 704-8A Compound Loudspeaker is both a serious advancement forward and a reaching back into the glory years - the result is a two-way loudspeaker system that has the advantages of modern materials and methods of manufacture coupled with the performance of the 604-8G and 604-8H. During the years EV owned Altec Lansing (after the move to OKC), they forced Altec to standardize on a few magnets, rather than the large number Altec was used to using (they were particular about choosing just the right magent for the speaker they were designing - not so at EV). The early, Anaheim K's were actually quite good - almost, if not equally, as good as the "H"....but the change to a different magnet hurt the K a lot.

    In the case of the 604-8K, they ended up using the magnet that EV had forced Altec to use on the 515-G series, which was much larger than the earlier one used on the "K" (it's also the same magnet EV was using on the DH-1A compression driver, if I'm not mistaken). This increased the flux density in the gap, but it also made the" "K" much more efficient - especially in the mid-band. The apparent result to the human ear was that the 604-8K didn't have much bass response, when, in reality, it hadn't changed - only the mid-band came up, and when it did, it created the perception that the "K" was "bass shy".

    When reviewing the performance of the 704-8A prototype for us, Jerry Hubbard discovered this problem, and designed new metal top and bottom plates to compensate for the larger magnet and get the unruly mid-band back under control.

    The result?

    Well, it can no longer be considered "bass shy" - the mid-band is now under control, and the unit has a MUCH more uniform frequency response, and the perception that the speaker lacks bass is no longer valid.

    Now we have a speaker that perfoms almost - if not exactly - like the "H", but with greater efficiency, too! At 4.87%, it is the most efficient 16" two-way of it's type ever built, as far we know - it's certainly more efficient than any Altec ever built. Not only that, but the "H" had the Mantaray horn - a vast improvement over the icky horn used in the C-G series, and the 704-8A has it, too!

    The T/S's for the now-correct 704-8A are:

    Xmax (inch) = 0.20
    Re (ohms) = 6.80
    Vd (cu. in.) = 19.20
    Fs (Hz)= 30.90
    Vas (cu. ft.) = 16.35
    Ref. Eff (%) = 4.87
    Qts = 0.261
    Qms = 8.49
    Qes = 0.270
    Vid (cu. ft.) = 0.24


    Incidentally, these improvements and T/S's are exclusive to the ICONIC Model 704-8A - the 604-8L off by ALPro is NOT the same speaker, nor does it share these characteristics (and it's more expensive). We think the 704 will rival, if not overtake, the 604-8G in popularity...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

  10. #10
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Bad news - Good news???

    I called up Bill at Great Plains and he informed me that he no longer sells to the general public.

    But he did say that Iconic is who to contact those wonderful products.

    So Todd, it seems we will be chatting sometime in the future when I need some more drivers.

    From those who know me, I can be long winded. But hope to establish the same cameraderie that I had with Bill Hanuschak at GP.

    Looking forward to doing business with you in the near future Todd!!!

    You might bring some of those Iconic toys up to Ohio for us to look at sometime!

    Regards, Ron

  11. #11
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    Iconic Product Numbering and 704 LF Section

    Our number for the former 399 driver is 145-8 or 16A, depending upon impedance. This conforms to our inverted J L numbering system.

    The 14= 1.4" exit throat, 5= 500 Hz minimum crossover-8 or 16 impedance, A is first vatiant. The lower power version with the old 288 diaphragm deviates somewhat from the numbering and and is the 142-8/16A. Here we picked the 2 as a counterpart to our lower power small format driver, the 102.

    The 704 differs from former models with an optimized magnet structure with more linearity than any previous. In fact the 604K and L had the least lineartiy of any of all with their thinner top plates than the older alnico models. We took care to make sure our new higher temp voice coil assy does not change the fidelity of the driver. We still are using the regular length voice coil, however, with higher temp adhesives and former so the driver will be able to be used harder.

    Thank you for all for your patience with our endevour, it has taken us a lot longer than we had hoped for to get to the stage we are now. JIM
    Last edited by jimd; 05-03-2005 at 02:32 PM. Reason: SP

  12. #12
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    Hi Jim

    I see the 145 driver is missing the housing extension of the 288/299 series .

    - Did the 399 have this extra depth ? ( I guess I should ask Ron )

    - Why the change to the shallower / flatter pancake style driver ?

    <. Earl K

  13. #13
    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    The large format ICONIC compression drivers will soon have the large pot casting on them, like the ones you are used to.

    The pot casting, Dr. John K. Hilliard told me, and Bill Hayes and Jerry Hubbard both confirm, lowers the mechanical resonance of the driver to a point lower than the lowest crossover frequency, thus minimizing the distortion that the driver generates caused by lower harmonics acting as fundamentals. The lack of this pot casting is one of the reasons the large-diaphragm drivers by "others" have a certain "ssssttthhhh" to them when people try to talk through them.

    Nasty!

    The newer Iconic's won't have this problem, even though in the current ones, it's not as bad, due to the smaller diaphragm (4" is just too large, folks).
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

  14. #14
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Todd, are we just a little prejudiced here?

    I don't mean to make waves here but I know there was a debate about Altec 3" diaphrams versus JBL's 4" drivers and while the debate was "spirited", I am hard-pressed to really pick a driver that "does-it-all".

    I think both companies have good products and I know you are rooting for the Iconics, but I look at the fact that they both are best when used in their best applications.

    Ron


    PS: Don't forget this is a Lansing family here. I like both for different purposes but I believe there is a JBL following here that will stay with their loyalty.

  15. #15
    Member Todd W. White's Avatar
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    No Prejudice - just acoustic facts... :)

    No prejudice at all - I'm merely stating the truth: 4" diaphragms with 2" exit throats ALL exhibit distortion caused by the size of the diaphragm being just too large.

    I am also stating that drivers without the large physical pot casting - regardless of the size of their diaphragms - also have distortion introduced into the audio path via the mechanical resonance of the device itself. This is why the mechanical resonance MUST be brought down to a point below the lowest usable crossover frequency, or you WILL have problems.

    Lansing fans need to learn this, too!
    Todd W. White, Owner & Webmaster
    Altec Lansing's (unofficial) Homepage
    http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/

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