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Thread: LE15 for Paragon

  1. #16
    Maron Horonzakz
    Guest
    The Paragon horn design cutoff is about 50Hz But.. the LE 15 goes below 30Hz can I hear it? You bet your little cookies. But with some added distortion. Can I hear the difference in LE 15 & 150-4 with the paragon horn below cut off? SHURE. The woofer doesnt stop at horn cutoff but its amplitude is affected. Can I hear this? Yes. Its not the bottom end that I obssess about. Its the Poor high frequency spread over the curved panel ( 500Hz to 7000Hz) the rest (075) spits out at you out of that black mouth. Why didnt they aim the tweeter off that curved panel boggels my mind. They do it on the Metragon. They do it on the Minigon.

  2. #17
    whgeiger
    Guest

    Paragon, Partie Deux

    MH,

    1) Bass Section
    Like Klipsch’s corner horn [1], [2] & [4], the Paragon bass horns also employ multiple flare rates and pathway bifurcation. Their mutual effective cut-off frequency [Fc] is approximately 30 Hz. Of course [F3] is higher. Also the cut-off frequency is not an impenetrable wall. As Klipsch clearly demonstrates in a subsequent paper [3], output below the cut-off frequency exists.

    2) High Frequency Section
    Unfortunately the 2403 [5] circa 1979, came after the Paragon design had been all but abandoned. Need to acoustically 'paint' the reflector pannel properly requires an elliptical horned driver.

    Regards,

    WHG


    [1] Title: A Low Frequency Horn of Small Dimensions
    Author: Paul W. Klipsch
    Publication: ASA-J, Vol. 13, Oct-1941
    Publication: ASE-J, Vol. 27, No. 3, p. 141 (1979) Reprint
    Abstract: The first paper on the classical Klipsch-horn (corner bass horn). The loudspeaker horn described is a low-frequency horn so folded as to utilize wall and floor reflections to improve the impedance match at the mouth. Some curves and a lot of enthusiastic talk about how good the horns sound is presented.

    [2] Title: Improved Low-Frequency Horn
    Publication: ASA-J, Vol. 14, Jan-1943
    Author: Paul W. Klipsch, 4 pp.
    Abstract: Follow-up to a previous article. Better measurements and some improvements in the design of the horn are presented.
    [3] Title: A Note on Acoustic Horns
    Author: Paul W. Klipsch
    Publication: IRE-P, Vol. 33, No. 7, Jul-1945
    Abstract (1): Customarily throat impedance of an exponential horn is portrayed as exhibiting a sharp cutoff characteristic. For those that have tested horns in the acoustics laboratory, the fact that a horn propagates sound waves below its cutoff frequency is not a surprise.
    Abstract (2): The present note shows that this discrepancy between theory and practice is reconcilable. Equations based on accepted theory are used to compute the throat impedance below cutoff, and it is shown that both the reactive and resistive components of this impedance remain finite.
    Note: Precursor to Reactance Annulling.

    [4] Title: A High Quality Loudspeaker of Small Dimensions
    Publication: ASA-J, Vol. 17, No.3, Jan-1946
    Author: Paul W. Klipsch
    Abstract: A complete loudspeaker system using a corner bass horn and complementary high frequency horn is described, along with evaluations using Western Electric 555W driver. If you are contemplating a design/build project of a similar enclosure, study of all of Klipsch’s articles will be beneficial in obtaining a successful outcome.

    [5] JBL 2403, Ultra-High Frequency Driver with Elliptical
    Horn. http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...pro/page18.jpg

  3. #18
    Junior Member
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    The reason jbl used the le-15a in the paragon was to improve the bass according to Harvey Gerst. Also the owner of Pecar electronics in Detroit told me this in 1965. I doubt that jbl would have done it if it didn't make an improvement. Of course, I would still like to hear the original paragon with the 150C. I have found that the bass is much improved with the 2234 -no more wooly base! Bass definition and low frequency extension are significantly better. Would the 2235 be even better? I don't know, but there is a loss of efficiency. Does anyone have a spare pair to bring over? The downside: loss of depth in the soundstage. The likely culprit:
    the lx-5 crossover and the probably the reason why jbl never replaced the le-15a with the 2235. They would not likely have allocated money to develop a new crossover for a low volume money losing product.
    Stephen C.

  4. #19
    whgeiger
    Guest

    '10-4'

    Quote Originally Posted by rpstephen
    )snip(
    Would the 2235 be even better? I don't know, but there ishttp://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbull...lies/smile.gif a loss of efficiency. Does anyone have a spare pair to bring over? The downside: loss of depth in the soundstage. The likely culprit:
    the lx-5 crossover and the probably the reason why jbl never replaced the le-15a with the 2235. They would not likely have allocated money to develop a new crossover for a low volume money losing product.
    SC,

    1) 2235 is identical to the 2234, except the 2235 has a heaver cone [mms]. As [Pe] remains constant and [No] takes a dive, stick with the 2234 for best results.

    2) [Re] and [Le] for the 2234 are about ½ those of the LE15A. Crossover changes would be required to get the best performance from the 2234.

    3) The next step form here would be to try 1500FE/AL, if it will fit in the Paragon’s back-chamber.

    4) For a guide to picking horn drivers, see Small's paper [1].

    Regards,

    WHG

    Reference:
    [1] Title: Suitability of Low-Frequency Drivers for Horn-Loaded Loudspeaker Systems
    Author: Richard H. Small
    Publication: AES-P, No. 1251, Cnv. 57, (1977-05)
    URL: http://www.aes.org/publications/preprints/search.html
    Abstract: The efficiency, bandwidth and power capacity of low frequency horn loaded loudspeaker systems are directly affected by the parameters of the driver used. Three new composite driver parameters, formed by simple combination of the basic parameters, give a direct indication of driver suitability for horn-loaded operation. These composite parameters also greatly simplify the selection of optimum horn constants and the calculation of system performance and ratings.

  5. #20
    Senior Member
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    3) The next step form here would be to try 1500FE/AL, if it will fit in the Paragon’s back-chamber.

    - The ME150S would/should also be a good candidate in this application . ( Think of it loosely as the "overhung coil" version of these newer woofers )

    - And it's actually affordable, obtainable & a noticable stepup in resolution from the 2234/5 variants .


    regards

  6. #21
    Alex Lancaster
    Guest
    Friends: We are talking about what is real vintage, We would not talk about hotrodding a 1932 Rolls Royce, would We?

  7. #22
    whgeiger
    Guest

    Rolls Rolling

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Lancaster
    Friends: We are talking about what is real vintage, We would not talk about hotrodding a 1932 Rolls Royce, would We?
    AL,

    Yes, but the 1932 Rolls is not your daily drive, now is it?

    You cannot "Hot-Rod" a Paragon by simply swaping drivers; but doing so may improve your daily listening experiance.

    In any case, so long as the modification is reversible, no harm is done. Just don't paint your Rolls a different color.

    Regards,

    WHG

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