Are there ways to date JBL D130F speakers?

[horseshead]

That's my understanding.

Welcome to Lansing Land!

Thank you!

If you post some photos of your D130Fs some of the sleuths here might be able to narrow them down for you...as for recone or original, there are some give aways, but typically you need to look at under side and look for glue residue or a wider than factory bead of glue around the dustcap.

Widget

The bottm D130F appears to have a wider bead of glue around the dustcap than that of the top D130F. The back shows some auqua color that is typical of the oxidation you see from liquid damage just on the edge of the screen on the decal . Is this clearly a recone?
Rick

[57BELAIRE]

It sure looks like a recone to me...normally with a D130 this age the aluminum centerdome will have experienced some form of oxidation. This one is so shiny it looks new. Also, the bead of glue IS wider and doesn't look 100% factory.

rbh

[horseshead]

But the other D130F look original
Rick

[Tim Rinkerman]

57 belaire..

I believe you have the fake recone..the number on the cone..WHF-something,stands for Waldom Hi Fidelity....they made component parts for loudspeaker reconers...the orange gasket was the other give-away. If you were to take this speaker apart you would find that the voice coil is round copper wire,not flat aluminum, and the cone does not have the same travel as a factory JBL....
horsehead,
Yours look to be both original....the dome probably got dented at some point, and needed to be replaced. If you poke one in and pull it out, they usually eventually crack where it was dented,and buzz.
The D-130 and the D-140 are both 15" speakers. The 130 has the single roll edge(surround)and is an all purpose speaker. The D-140 has the "accordion"type surround, and is designed for lower frequency use,the pleated edge lets the cone move further,without adding much more mechanical resistance. The D-120 is a 12" speaker with a single roll surround,as is the D-110. Any with an"F" suffix were destined for Fender amps.
Hope this helps, Tim

[GordonW]

Tim's dead-on, with his assessment, WRT the woofer 57BELAIRE posted the pic of. WHFXXXX is indeed the format Waldom used for their aftermarket cones, though they've changed the format now to "HFXXXX". And yes, they do apparently STILL use a round-wire coil in their replacement cone kits, even though flat-wire coils, identical to the originals, are available elsewhere these days.

Sometimes, when doing an aftemarket recone, I'll use a Waldom cone (some of their cones are almost dead-ringers for the originals, as far as weight, stiffness, treatment and such are concerned) with a MWA voice coil (flat-wire). This, usually, will result in a woofer that has identical specs to the original. In fact, we just had to recone a LE15B this way... the only LE15 model with a corregated surround... because JBL no longer carries a corregated-surround LE15 kit. Used a Waldom cone, with a MWA voice coil, spider and dustcap... and it came out right-on.

I also think Tim is right, in his assessment of horsehead's woofers. If that woofer WAS reconed, it was reconed VERY early in its life, and the PROPER FACTORY kit was used. It may well be, that the dome alone was replaced, as that, as Tim mentioned, was a common operation as the domes got dented or punctured...

Regards,
Gordon.

[57BELAIRE]

Hmmmm...I wondered about that...My cone should have read 130-101?

Oh well, since the part is not JBL I guess I'll just toss it.....

Thanks one and all

rbh

[horseshead]

horsehead,
Yours look to be both original....the dome probably got dented at some point, and needed to be replaced. If you poke one in and pull it out, they usually eventually crack where it was dented,and buzz.
The D-130 and the D-140 are both 15" speakers. The 130 has the single roll edge(surround)and is an all purpose speaker. The D-140 has the "accordion"type surround, and is designed for lower frequency use,the pleated edge lets the cone move further,without adding much more mechanical resistance. The D-120 is a 12" speaker with a single roll surround,as is the D-110. Any with an"F" suffix were destined for Fender amps.
Hope this helps, Tim

Well yeah! You saved me the time and money of looking for another D130F to replace. Thanks! Gordon put them at about a '59 or '60 but I bought them in May of 2002 in a dual showman cabinet. One of two possiblities are that the speakers were put into that cabinet after they were manufactured, sat on the shelf of the factory before being installed in the cabinet, or used, whichever, because that cabinet wasn't made until '67, at least according to the ampwares website. The other possiblity is that the speakers were manufactured later than '59 or '60 - at least '67.

But, tell me this, are the D120's suppossed to possess the same sonic signiture as the D130's? I recently bought a pair of D120's rebuilt to 1957 or '58 specifications with non-JBL replacement parts. The only part that remained original JBL was the orange basket. These D120's have a one piece paper cone instead of the usual two piece cone and are rated at 25 to 35 watts peak as opposed to the usual 100 watts peak. As an aside, in all fairness, I mounted them in a 2x12" 39" high closed back fender cabinet with a few screw holes loose and stripping in the front baffle to mount the speakers (one of the screws had to be left out for one of the speakers) than the tight screw holes of my D130's forty five and 1/2" high 2x15" closed back cabinet (which also happened to come containing fiberglass insulation inside). Could these later variables be the cause in the diffence of sound that I am hearing between the 120's and 130's, or is the difference in sound due to the difference in vintage build and/or that the 120's don't have the spectrum of rich tone that I/one would normally hear from the 130's?
Rick

[Tim Rinkerman]

Glad I could help,Horseman! The 130 will sound warmer or fuller (guitarspeak) due to the amount of cone driven by the voice coil, as opposed to the same size voice coil in the 120,moving much less paper. The aluminum domes make the upper frequencies sound pretty much the same,but the bigger cone will produce more bass every time...on a similar note,I've never heard a Twin Reverb with 2-120's in it described as "warm" either...
Also,in the accuracy department,the round wire(fake)replacement voice coils are totally different sounding than the originals. Quieter,and less sensitive to dynamics,kinda like dead strings...I think that may be what you are describing as lacking richness of tone.

[riker1384]

Buy it flowers and take it out for dinner and a movie......I'm here all night.

[horseshead]

I just played the D120's the second time and they sound great now. I guess they needed to be broken in. Warm is not the right term for a JBL, but on first try they didn't have much of that JBL character sound. They are a little light weight in the lows because of the absence of the separate surround piece which if included can lower the resonant frequency or as you put it, if absent, gives less, or gives less mechanical resistance. But anyway, the doped paper surround which I have has less low end, so they are in fact a little less warm sounding than the 100 watt model. A flat ribbon voice coil was used so that you couldn't tell the difference between the original '57 or '58 model and this rebuild. Still, I'm interested how the 100 watt model sounds by comparison to this one although I have nothing to complain about. I heard Weber does recones that you can't tell the difference between his and the origianl JBL's. Any body else have any experience with them?

Ah, horses!

[Don McRitchie]

With regards to dating the "F" series speakers, about the only thing that can be stated definitively are the dates of the series run. Harvey Gerst has stated that he developed the "F" series speakers around 1967 while working at JBL. He posts occaisionally on this forum and a search of his messages will provide significant, useful background. The "F" series was replaced by the "K" series in 1973. Therefore any D130F would have been made some time during that eight year period. Prior to the "F" series, the "D" series were supplied as OEM speakers to amplifier manufacturers from the very beginnings of JBL in the 1940's. Les Paul purchased speakers directly from Jim Lansing as early as 1948 (likely D130's and D131's).

[horseshead]

[QUOTE=Don McRitchie]
The "F" series was replaced by the "K" series in 1973.

Don,

Do you know when in '73 the "K" series was first introduced? And when was the "E" series introduced? How would you describe the sound of each of these three series speakers to eachother?


[QUOTE=Don McRitchie]
Therefore any D130F would have been made some time during that eight year period.

Thanks, I'll check when fender started using the later model cabinet for their d130f/dual showman combo as I have the earlier model cabinet with the silver metal strip between the edge of the grill and the black tolex covered wood. Also, the color of the grill cloth is more bluish versus the more greenish color used later, I think about 1970 as is the year of my head. My September 1970 dual shoman head has that more greenish color grill.
Rick

[basilhenriques]

New here so please excuse if this has been covered before. I dearly would like to know the age of a pair of D130's that I have.
One has 130 202 (Stencil on the cone) and serial No. 17759 16ohm and looks the same as this one (Sorry for stealing your image 57BELAIRE
The other is in the attic but similar numbers, I'll post them tomorrow.
Any help evaluating them would be most welcome.

Basil

[Chack91990]

I have a JBL D130f s/n 6077 I'm trying to date. Anyone got any ideas?