The ultimate CD-player!?

[pangea]

I have finally given the Sony PS-1, Model SCHP-1001 an audition.

I auditioned it on my non JBL system as it is currently the only system up and running. The system is comprised of a pair of Monitor Audio mini-monitor two-ways, bi-amped with a vintage John Curl designed Symmetry ACS-1 crossover to Scan Speak 6 1/2" mid bass helper woofers, and a Velodyne sub. The preamp is a PS Audio 4.6. The amps are a Hafler P3000 for the mini monitors and an AB for the helper woofers. The interconnects were gold plated cheapos.

I compared the PS-1 (no mods) with a ~$500 Sony ES model CD changer. I have two better players downstairs, but opted for this comparison as it was the simplest to implement.

I did all comparisons in an A/B scenario with identical CDs in each player. Matching levels was a little tricky as the PS-1 has significantly lower output. I auditioned both in a blind fashion (quasi double blind as my assistant, my wife, had no idea why I had asked her to switch back and forth between the two sources.) After I auditioned them I performed the switching duties for my wife and we both had virtually identical responses.

Our impressions.

The sound stage was slightly wider for the PS-1 and the sound was slightly mellower (possibly smoother). The Sony ES changer had slightly more detail.

I can't say that either player was distinctly superior... they were slightly different as stated above. The PS-1 is a bargain at $15, though less convenient to use than a dedicated player.

If anyone would like to buy this player for $15, send me a PM.

Widget

Hi Widget!

I'm very surprised over your findings, but cannot comment on them since I have no knowledge of the gear you have used.

If you are serious about selling the PS1, I would be very interested in buying it, if only to let it go a run against my own and see if there is a difference between them and possibly determine if there is something is wrong with it.

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

Sounds cool... I'll give it to you if you pay the shipping. It will be interesting to see if you find a difference between this player and yours.

After I did my audition I went back over the entire thread. It seems that my findings are pretty much in line with others who have posted comments. Sure there are those comments like "It is the best..." but those that did direct comparisons and posted their findings did seem to pretty much say similar things to my post. I found this interesting since I had either completely forgotten them or never read them in the first place. I think it is a nice sounding CD player that has a mellow tonal quality and does present a good sound stage. In my system, not the end all of all High End systems, but not a slouch either and certainly more revealing than many, I didn't find audio nirvana... just a good solid player with a funky look and awkward interface.

Widget

[pangea]

Sounds cool... I'll give it to you if you pay the shipping. It will be interesting to see if you find a difference between this player and yours.

After I did my audition I went back over the entire thread. It seems that my findings are pretty much in line with others who have posted comments. Sure there are those comments like "It is the best..." but those that did direct comparisons and posted their findings did seem to pretty much say similar things to my post. I found this interesting since I had either completely forgotten them or never read them in the first place. I think it is a nice sounding CD player that has a mellow tonal quality and does present a good sound stage. In my system, not the end all of all High End systems, but not a slouch either and certainly more revealing than many, I didn't find audio nirvana... just a good solid player with a funky look and awkward interface.

Widget

Cool, great, thanks!!!

BR
Roland

[Figge]

Sounds cool... I'll give it to you if you pay the shipping. It will be interesting to see if you find a difference between this player and yours.

After I did my audition I went back over the entire thread. It seems that my findings are pretty much in line with others who have posted comments. Sure there are those comments like "It is the best..." but those that did direct comparisons and posted their findings did seem to pretty much say similar things to my post. I found this interesting since I had either completely forgotten them or never read them in the first place. I think it is a nice sounding CD player that has a mellow tonal quality and does present a good sound stage. In my system, not the end all of all High End systems, but not a slouch either and certainly more revealing than many, I didn't find audio nirvana... just a good solid player with a funky look and awkward interface.

Widget

i see ur point. i said "the best cd ive heard" becouse it infact is true. now im not specially impressed by any digital source, therefore ive never been intressted in cd-players. (a cd is a cd) pretty much. therefore ive never bothered with mega buck machines. ive had a lot of diffrent "pretty good", "not so good" and "crap" players over the years, but last 1,5 years ive stuck to a denon dual dj cd, wich too my ears were superior to the rest. now to the point: ps1 was better in every way, exept its interface, not directly userfriendly as cdp, its a hassle to operate without tv (my stereo dont have a tv) so i will continue using my denon, but will definatley buy ps1:s if i come across them. to further test the idéa and try some modifications, it´ll be fun. and i can allways bust up my buddies in a round of tekken.

the idéa shure is cool, and i would like to now how roland knew about it.

[JuniorJBL]

Widget
Have you tried it aginst the Adcom at all yet?
I would really like to know what you think about yours vs others.
I did have a sony 777 at one time and did not find much difference between the two.

I do however wonder about the PS1

[Mr. Widget]

Have you tried it aginst the Adcom at all yet?

No, I didn't and due to PITA factors I won't. Since I wasn't blown away by it in this comparison, I don't see the point.

I did have a sony 777 at one time and did not find much difference between the two.

The Sony 777 is fairly highly regarded in the audio press. Are you suggesting that the Adcom was just as amazing or that the Sony 777 was equally competent as the Adcom?

I have used several mid-fi and mid-fi plus players in my system, at $1200 retail I am calling the Adcom a mid-fi plus, and really haven't been blown away by any of them. With all of them and including the PS-1, there are subtle differences, but only subtle ones. The best player I have is a Sony 9000ES. It is a DVD/SACD/CD player, stereo only and is incrementally better than the others... but just. It is extremely heavy, has features like turning off the video circuitry and display to reduce the possibility of digital noise, (I think it is marketing hype... but the player was their flagship DVD/SACD player for about a month before they came out with multi-channel players.)

I have not had the pleasure to audition a $5K+ player at home and therefore have no idea what a difference they might make, but I have had one digital eye opener. When using the Sony 9000ES player as a transport and feeding the digital signal into my DEQX and using the DEQX as an upsampling DAC... there is a significant improvement in the soundstage. It makes red book CDs sound almost as good as a good SACD or vinyl. It also seems to make the highs just slightly more delicate, not brighter or duller but cleaner sounding.

Widget

[JuniorJBL]

The Sony 777 is fairly highly regarded in the audio press. Are you suggesting that the Adcom was just as amazing or that the Sony 777 was equally competent as the Adcom?

Widget

No! I had the 777 as a demo and the sacd portion did not work.
I should say that I was comparing in price vs performance. I paid $500.00 new from a local dealer for my adcom. At the time of the demo the 777 was no longer availible. Yes it did sound better but my system was not at the level that it is now.
I did pass up a chance to buy the SACD-1 for $1500.00 new!

I will regret that for awhile.

[Steve K]

I got the SCPH-1000 (Japanese market model) today and did a quick A/B comparison test against my current main CD player, an Arcam FMJ-CD23. I used the Tape input for the PlayStation 1 (PS1), using Philips interconnect RCA cables that came with a LHH-700 which I no longer have (sigh).

First off the volume gain of the PS is just slightly lower than that of my Arcam. I suppose this depends on what CDP you're comparing against, so I don't think there's an issue there. Actually, I started doing the comparison with Herbie Hancock's "Maiden Voyage" CD of which I just happened to have two copies. In that test the PS had a significantly lower gain level. To be sure, I switched the CDs around, and the opposite resulted. I found out that one of the copies, which had the higher level, was a Rudy Van Gelder edition, which was a newly re-mastered issue. So, I played other CDs and had to shuffle back and forth physically (can't win them all, huh?).

I played Grant Green's "I Want To Hold Your Hand", the Doobie's "Long Train Running" (my JBL sound standard), and a female jazz singer with a guitar only accompaniment doing her version of "I Wish You Love".

The Arcam's a good player, very musical with a slight warmth in tonality, and all in all, offers a well balanced output. I forgot to mention that the Arcam's connected with Kimber's PBJ interconnects, which I think makes it more neutral sounding.

The PS1. Well, I am suprised, and in a pleasant way. The overall tone I felt is a little brighter than the Arcam's, and that's with the Philips interconnects, which I think is on the warmer side. I thought it gave slightly more detail to the mid-to-highs. The bass is tight and well defined. And it's quiet, too. In "I Wish You Love", I could hear the vocalist humming away from the microphone during the guitar solo part, which I don't remember hearing before. How can I put it - a more 'studio' atmosphere? In short, I think it's very good.

Having said that, I'm still sticking to the Arcam as my main player, the greatest reason being it's got a way better user-interface than the PS1! And its sound is not crummy either. The PS1, I'll keep it as a second player for the time being, and maybe tinker with it, giving it better shielding, etc, as Roland suggests. But then again, I am truly impressed. I only wish that its controls were more friendly, and the build more sturdy (like it would be nice if it was made of precision machined metal!) If Sony only knew what treasure they had and acted on it, their audio business might just be competing healthily with the Denons and Marantz's today in mid-fi, where the market is, instead of coming up with $10,000+ products.

Well, that's it, folks. Thanks for reading this far.

Finally, thank you, Roland, for the great tip! You couldn't get a much better CD player for what I paid!

[Alex Lancaster]

Steve: Is Your PS1 a 100V unit?, if so You should be using a step down trans or auto transformer.

[Steve K]

Steve: Is Your PS1 a 100V unit?, if so You should be using a step down trans or auto transformer.

I live in Tokyo, Japan, where the voltage is 100V (50Hz). Thanks for your concern though.

[pangea]

I got the SCPH-1000 (Japanese market model) today and did a quick A/B comparison test against my current main CD player, an Arcam FMJ-CD23. I used the Tape input for the PlayStation 1 (PS1), using Philips interconnect RCA cables that came with a LHH-700 which I no longer have (sigh).

First off the volume gain of the PS is just slightly lower than that of my Arcam. I suppose this depends on what CDP you're comparing against, so I don't think there's an issue there. Actually, I started doing the comparison with Herbie Hancock's "Maiden Voyage" CD of which I just happened to have two copies. In that test the PS had a significantly lower gain level. To be sure, I switched the CDs around, and the opposite resulted. I found out that one of the copies, which had the higher level, was a Rudy Van Gelder edition, which was a newly re-mastered issue. So, I played other CDs and had to shuffle back and forth physically (can't win them all, huh?).

I played Grant Green's "I Want To Hold Your Hand", the Doobie's "Long Train Running" (my JBL sound standard), and a female jazz singer with a guitar only accompaniment doing her version of "I Wish You Love".

The Arcam's a good player, very musical with a slight warmth in tonality, and all in all, offers a well balanced output. I forgot to mention that the Arcam's connected with Kimber's PBJ interconnects, which I think makes it more neutral sounding.

The PS1. Well, I am suprised, and in a pleasant way. The overall tone I felt is a little brighter than the Arcam's, and that's with the Philips interconnects, which I think is on the warmer side. I thought it gave slightly more detail to the mid-to-highs. The bass is tight and well defined. And it's quiet, too. In "I Wish You Love", I could hear the vocalist humming away from the microphone during the guitar solo part, which I don't remember hearing before. How can I put it - a more 'studio' atmosphere? In short, I think it's very good.

Having said that, I'm still sticking to the Arcam as my main player, the greatest reason being it's got a way better user-interface than the PS1! And its sound is not crummy either. The PS1, I'll keep it as a second player for the time being, and maybe tinker with it, giving it better shielding, etc, as Roland suggests. But then again, I am truly impressed. I only wish that its controls were more friendly, and the build more sturdy (like it would be nice if it was made of precision machined metal!) If Sony only knew what treasure they had and acted on it, their audio business might just be competing healthily with the Denons and Marantz's today in mid-fi, where the market is, instead of coming up with $10,000+ products.

Well, that's it, folks. Thanks for reading this far.

Finally, thank you, Roland, for the great tip! You couldn't get a much better CD player for what I paid!

Hi Steve!

My pleasure entirely!!!

About the low gain, it's a known issue, it only has 1,5V out, instead of normally 2,0V.
The logical remedy would be to hang on a tube-stage, or simply turn up the volume slightly.
http://www.playfidelity.com/Seiten/P...1002/Page.html

About the interface, you can buy the PS2 remote-control, it fits and works well on the PS1 (except the one made by Saitec) and for display I'm using a small 5" LCD TV-screen, it gives me the control I need.

Finally I also have to say something about the sound. For the first time ever, I know now how jitter sounds, since there is absolutely non to hear on the PS1, but on most other CD-players!

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

For the first time ever, I know now how jitter sounds, since there is absolutely non to hear on the PS1, but on most other CD-players!

A very provocative statement... I didn't hear an AMAZING difference between the PS-1 and the reasonably average player I compared it to. Please try to use words to explain the difference you do hear.

BTW: I need to get that player boxed and then I'll get back to you with the shipping details... sorry for the delay.

Widget

[pangea]

A very provocative statement... I didn't hear an AMAZING difference between the PS-1 and the reasonably average player I compared it to. Please try to use words to explain the difference you do hear.

BTW: I need to get that player boxed and then I'll get back to you with the shipping details... sorry for the delay.

Widget

OK, I'll try to describe my impressions the best I can, it's not that easy though, in a foreign language.

Over the years I've listened to quite a few CD-players, where most of them would be what you call mid-fi stuff. I have however on a few occasions listened to real Hi-End CD-players and also a extremly modified CD-player, done by a true HiFi guru. All of these CD-players, despite having presented the music very well although in different ways, they all left a sort of sonic imprint in my brain, so I thought, this is how the digital format sounds and haven't thought much else about it and whenever I listened to my vinyl's, they came across as a bit dampened or constricted in the highs and I got used to it.

Now as I listened to the PS1 for the first time, the first thing I noticed, as the grin on my face grew wider, I thought it sounded like analog but without any constrictions and without the crackle and pops usually associated with vinyl's.
My second thought was, now I know what jitter is and not until having listened to digital music without the jitter, made me realize that it had been so present and intertwined with CD's all this time, that I didn't know what it was, until it was gone.

But then again, I'm not excluding the possibility, or even the likelihood that there are plenty of CD-players out there, that also do not have any jitter, it's probably just that I have managed to miss them, or haven't been able to afford any of them.

Take your time, no need to hurry with the shipping, I should finish my MTM hybrids first anyway.

BR
Roland

[gerard]

I would like to make a comment and may be someone can help me ? .

When I first compare the ps1 ( 1002 ) to my dvd563 Pionner , the ps1 gave more bass and also a better sound on the low medium area ; only the uhf was less present .

Then I change the caps on my 43xx crossover clone ( 2x56uf for the bass ) Solen caps again electrolyte 30 years old caps !.

The sound was much better and tight on the low medium , the bass was also firmer ; the bass speaker le15a on my left side which I though needed recone now sound perfect !!!! .

Then I compare again the ps1 and the pionner and i DO NOT SEE any difference on the bass only the voice or trumplet are more ahead and metallic ; for trumpet it is ok even better sometimes but tot the voice .

I do not understand why I do not see the bass difference between the 2 palyer since I change those caps .

Gerard

[pangea]

I would like to make a comment and may be someone can help me ? .

When I first compare the ps1 ( 1002 ) to my dvd563 Pionner , the ps1 gave more bass and also a better sound on the low medium area ; only the uhf was less present .

Then I change the caps on my 43xx crossover clone ( 2x56uf for the bass ) Solen caps again electrolyte 30 years old caps !.

The sound was much better and tight on the low medium , the bass was also firmer ; the bass speaker le15a on my left side which I though needed recone now sound perfect !!!! .

Then I compare again the ps1 and the pionner and i DO NOT SEE any difference on the bass only the voice or trumplet are more ahead and metallic ; for trumpet it is ok even better sometimes but tot the voice .

I do not understand why I do not see the bass difference between the 2 palyer since I change those caps .

Gerard

I think it could be logical the difference are smaller now after the change of caps.

Deeper and tighter bass, I think, is what everyone has experienced.

You say the uhf became less present with the PS1. Could it be that the amount of presence is still the same and that you perhaps did mistake the jitter for more presence? Also, could it be that the voices now are more calm and settled and without the jitter, that it makes you feel there is something missing and the missing part, being the jitter?

If you're listening to vinyl's, do you also think there is less presence on those records?

Just wondering and trying to imagine if I could have drawn the same conclusions.

BR
Roland