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  1. #1
    Steve Gonzales
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    Solid State vs. Tube Amps

    Solid State vs. Tube Amps












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    <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->I would like to hear about the difference in these two types of amplifiers. Maybe de-bunk some myths and some in-depth explanation of the pros and cons of both types. Other than the obvious differences, why does a low watt tube amp seem to be more powerful than it's rating would suggest?. I am a Solid State guy myself and even with 90db plus efficient speakers, I find that peaks of 200+ watts are not uncommon to see with today's Digital recordings and their wide dynamic range. I see tube guys freak-out when I mention that many watts, like I'm deaf and need 110db's just to enjoy the music. Nothing could be further from the truth. I also find that just the ambient noise level in the city causes me to double my average power level (duh) and wonder how some 8 wpc SET could EVER power, say, some Altec 19's or JBL L300's?. I realize that alot of pure horn designs of the golden era simply had to have sensitivity ratings in 100-105db + @1w/1m due to the state of amplifier evolution back then. I spoke to a good friend, Electronics Engineer and former JBL pro dealer, Mr Jack Sproul, about this and he said that when you get down to the nuts and bolts of a tube amp, it's old hat. Their distortion levels and performance (generally) can't even begin to compete with State of the Art SS amps. His opinion is that the tube "purists" are really in love with how a tube amp COLORS the signal!. That "warmth" that is often associated with tube amps is a by-product of component limits/characteristics, topology and is inherent in the basic tube amplifier design and that this produces a type of naturally occurring E.Q. I LOVE audio and admire and RESPECT EVERYONE'S CHOICE for their own set-up. I've listened to some REALLY GREAT tube amps recently (Audio Research) and must admit that they were DEAD QUIET, SWEET and projected a WONDERFUL SOUNDSTAGE!. I am curious to hear your opinions about this. My best friend, Mr David Brink, will be building a quad (as in 4)-amped system using 300B based amps on top and EL34 for mid/midbass and maybe a big CJ on bottom or SS Perraux. I can see where in this type of system, that a small amp can be used to power efficient drivers to deafening levels but, I can't see how you can power a big, passively crossed-over, relatively efficient speaker of 90db @1w/1m and get the most out of well recorded music. I must stress that this is not a FEUD!, no, I SEEK to be ENLIGHTENED by those with REAL WORLD experience. I will say thank you to all that understand and respond with that in mind. Lordy!, I'm almost scared to get into tubes, because if it turns out to be the next best thing to sliced bread, I might have to save some extra money for the divorce , Sincerely, Steve G






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  2. #2
    Senior Member 57BELAIRE's Avatar
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    Great question...I'm sure you'll get an engineer onboard to explain in depth the technical aspects, but I can offer some personal insight with tubes vs. transistors.

    Tube amps have always been the preferred choice for musical instrument amplification, especially electric guitar. There is a warmth and "musicality" inherent with tubes that was explained to me by a tech ""it's all about even harmonics". I don't know about that, but when I switched over to a s.s Standel amp from a tube Fender, that lasted about 5 minutes. The overall sound was harsh and brittle. Gone was that sweet "overdrive" and smooth distortion...a hallmark of tube amps.

    As power requirements for live performances increased, the need for larger amps paved the way for small, powerful, cheaper solid state designs. A typical 300 watt s.s amp weighed in at about 15 lb. compared to the all-tube Ampeg SVT at around 85 lbs. To this day an all-tube amp will usually cost twice as much as it's transistorized counterpart.

    Enter the "hybrid amps" which I happen to subscribe to. A single 12AX7 is inserted in the preamp circuitry and the power amp is solid state. The attack of the note is softened which results in a somewhat "sweeter" sound.

    As far as my personal preferences for home listening...I try to recreate the sound of a live performance, stage center, so give me gobs of clean wattage.

    So far 1200+ watts of transistorized power is doing me just fine...

  3. #3
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    Quad (the company) engineer speaks on tubes - ca 1978

    Mike Albinson: (Walker's engineering assistant) If you want a subject fraught with idiocies, at the moment there's this craze that valve (tube) amplifiers are better. and that Quad II valve amplifiers are now the best, in terms of reproduction. Read through the technical press of about twelve years ago and you will learn that transistors are much better than valves and the valve amplifier is dead on its feet. Now today it is having a grand revival! It's fashion - there's no reality to it. A modern transistor amplifier is better on any count you care to mention than the Quad II was, with the possible exception, that if you must go and overdrive the thing the valve amplifier does show marginal differences. There have been a few bad transistor amplifiers. It's easier to make a bad transistor amplifier than a bad valve amplifier. However you made the valve amplifier, it might hum or something. but usually it was reasonable linear.

    http://www.onethingaudio.com/FOR/QUA...GEN-HIS-PW.htm


    John Nebel

  4. #4
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    "Fraught with idiocies, there's no reality to it."

    [Just $$$$!]

    That about sums it up....

  5. #5
    Senior Member alskinner's Avatar
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    Good and bad

    Having tried numerous solid state and tube amps one thing is for certain it depends on who you ask as to which is better. There have been good advances in both. As for a personal preference I prefer tube amps driving compression drivers in that for me they take the edge or harshness off. In my four way four amped system I have a Audio Matriere Accordance EL34 based amp driving the 076 tweeters, a modified Dynaco ST-70 using the 16ohm taps driving the 2441 drivers, a Threshold Stasis 2 driving the 2 2012 midrange drivers and a Sunn SPL 9000 driving the 2235 woofers. I tried moving the amps arround to different drivers and found that for me getting the horn drivers to sound dynamic without harshness only worked with tubed amps. Also the soundstage really improved with this configuration. For Low Freq drivers I still prefer SS as I have found tubes for the most part to muddy up the bass. I know there are advocates for both sides of the issue. But for JBL Horns especially the older ones I haven't found anything better than tubes. Having said all that tube amps can be finicky and the brand or type of tubes can make a difference in the sound. But with a little electronic experience many of the old tube amps can be modified to produce some amazing results.

    Just my 2 cents worth

    AL

  6. #6
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    Thanks for that alskinner .

    I do believe there is a lot to this subject - just like I find that crossover caps need to be matched to the rest of the working system .

    F.I. : I find that MPP motor runs on horns "tame" the dynamics in certain frequency areas while being generous to the lower mids . This generally seems to offer a "lengthening of the tone or pulse" and is most dramatic on things like solo violin ( and specifically , Louis Armstrongs' trumpet playing - and he could always use a touch of added warmth to that horn ). This is not measurable with the standard complement of test gear . But these dynamic rearrangements readjust the harmonics and thus the timbre. This is all very apparent on compression drivers ( IME ).


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