The seeming demise of JBL OEM parts... and the subsequent devaluation of a brand?

[LowPhreak]

It seems to me the CEO's/management of Harmon et al don't want to take a lesser salary. In order to keep profits high, either make very good, higher-end products that are going to be stratospherically priced out of the reach of many, (look at the prices of the Project Array and Synthesis lines...ridiculous) or make a wide assortment of cheap junk with lower margins and sell trainloads of it.

There's not that much in the mid-priced range that's worth having anymore. Either you buy the crap stuff or be willing to take out a second mortgage, or be very well-off financially. Kind of reflects the way society in general has become: the rich are getting exponentially richer, while the 'middle class' is barely holding on. But there's plenty of room at the bottom.

With the throw away and "surround-sound-in-a-box" mentality of the average consumer today, the "wide assortment of cheap junk" option is going to work better. Very few are able to or want to take the effort, space requirements, and money it takes to achieve great sound.

[BMWCCA]

On sum, JBL has a greater line of speakers today than it's ever had before. It also has the most lo-fi and mid-fi offerings ever. What we have is a phenomenon where it's addressing the entire market.

I insist their problem is in marketing. Few people ever get to see, much less hear, any of the latest JBL offerings. I live two-hours outside Washington, DC, and there's no place to find even the crappy low-end stuff much less the high-end. There are more opportunities to bump into B&O and McIntosh than JBL. I haven't run into a dealer in years other than their cheap musical-instrument-store sound reinforcement products. It's far easier for me to live in the past buying what I know off Ebay and Craig's List than to find a dealer to ever discover what JBL is up to these days. I think lack of visibility takes them off the shopping list of most even in a high-demographic area like where I live. You can buy a BMW, Porsche, or M-B product within a 10-minute drive. You can't find a K2 in a seven-hour drive. That's a problem. Maybe I'm just spoiled, but even in the olden days when the product line was tiny, there were at least three JBL dealers in St. Louis where I grew-up. And I could walk in and be amazed. That helped the boomer generation aspire to own JBL. Of course now that means we're buying the stuff we couldn't afford back then, not the new stuff. But whose fault is that? Know any kids today in the U.S. who even have JBL on their "someday" list for home sound system, unless it's that donut-shaped iPod dock?

[Robh3606]

JBL's have never been inexpensive. Try some of the original prices off the Consumer price list in one of the online calculators. They give adjusted dolars and work backwords as well.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


Thats for an XPL200

What cost $1699 in 1990 would cost $2526.99 in 2005.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2005 and 1990,
they would cost you $1699 and $1142.31 respectively.


http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...999-prices.htm


Rob

[LowPhreak]

...Know any kids today in the U.S. who even have JBL on their "someday" list for home sound system, unless it's that donut-shaped iPod dock?

Well, I know one who has a set of Creatures on his "want" list.



But you have a good argument. If more of the higher-end stuff was in showrooms, it might even create a desire for them. If you can't see it, touch it, hear it...

Imagine THAT, JBL!

[Robh3606]

Know any kids today in the U.S. who even have JBL on their "someday" list for home sound system, unless it's that donut-shaped iPod dock?

Yes, any of my son's friends that have heard his L3's or any of my larger systems. They love the way they sound.

Rob

[Titanium Dome]

Well, I know one who has a set of Creatures on his "want" list.



But you have a good argument. If more of the higher-end stuff was in showrooms, it might even create a desire for them. If you can't see it, touch it, hear it...

Imagine THAT, JBL!

I have some Creatures. Very nice for what they are.

[LowPhreak]

I'm sure they are, but maybe you missed my point?

[Mr. Widget]

There's not that much in the mid-priced range that's worth having anymore. Either you buy the crap stuff or be willing to take out a second mortgage, or be very well-off financially. Kind of reflects the way society in general has become: the rich are getting exponentially richer, while the 'middle class' is barely holding on. But there's plenty of room at the bottom.

We have had several threads devolve into this conversation... I think it is a symptom of the frustration most of us are feeling as we watch the middle class disappear. Even some of the more astute at the top of the food chain are beginning to become concerned as they realize that it was our large middle class that elevated America to the financial pinnacle of the world... we need a large and healthy middle class to sustain our economy.... many short sighted executives who are exporting our middle class jobs for phenomenal near term profits either don't realize this or just don't care.

JBL's have never been inexpensive.

Absolutely! One reason that so many JBLs survive is that they were a premium line... today the JBL line is following the trend in the US.... cheap junk for the Best Buy crowd and premium product for those who can afford it... there are almost no stores showcasing the high end, because the wealthy generally would prefer to simply have it installed and set up properly buying equipment that is recommended by the professionals that they hire. I does kind of limit our ability to kick tires... but that is today's marketplace.

There's not that much in the mid-priced range that's worth having anymore.

I have no idea what JBL offers in he mid priced arena but the Revel "F" series is seriously worth a look.


As for he dumbing down of kids today? I have recently met several younger fellows who very very interested in getting better audio gear to keep up with their superior HD video gear... all is not lost.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

I'm sure they are, but maybe you missed my point?

Nope. Pretty sure I got it.

[Robh3606]

I'm sure they are, but maybe you missed my point?

I don't think so. Your point is well taken. Back in the 70's a kick ass stereo was what everyone wanted. Now it's computers and XBox's. Like Widget says all is not lost. Like anything else many of what becomes your favorite things in life you are introduced to by others. For me it was my Dad. I passed that on to my son. Yes most are happy with MP3 but many were happy with much less sophisticated stereo's as well. Doesn't mean they won't change.

Rob

[LowPhreak]

I s'pose there are some decent "mid-range" speakers out there, like the Revel's you mentioned, or the Quad L-series for example. I meant in JBL's though.

As for he dumbing down of kids today? I have recently met several younger fellows who very very interested in getting better audio gear to keep up with their superior HD video gear... all is not lost.

I've been 'working' on my twin 26-year-old cousins for years, and of course they want good hi-fi but have trouble affording it. I might end up having to convince them to buy used 44xx models or such. Then there is my 7 y.o....

[LowPhreak]

Back in the 70's a kick ass stereo was what everyone wanted. Now it's computers and XBox's. Like Widget says all is not lost. Like anything else many of what becomes your favorite things in life you are introduced to by others. For me it was my Dad. I passed that on to my son. Yes most are happy with MP3 but many were happy with much less sophisticated stereo's as well. Doesn't mean they won't change.

Rob

Right, well then we didn't have much "video" of our fave bands to stare at, while the brain went on hiatus for the sound. You put on a record or tape, then tried to hear into (or fill in the blanks) of what was going on. I think this required a bit more processing and attention than simply cranking up a boomy sub and zoning out on an HT rig.

Probably a good thing anyway, since Keef & Mick were never that much to look at.

[CONVERGENCE]

I live in a large city . They have Line array by JBL , VDOSC, MEYER.
Listening to one component or one box won't give you the true picture.

You need the whole thing 12 units flown .The reasons are evident that with 12 units of JBL vertec you have a more manageable bass response.

So what major wholesaler contractor can afford a 2000 seat theater to display this kind of equipment


.................................................. ................................................

[LowPhreak]

Were we talking about demo'ing a Vertec system for a live venue, or something for residential or studio use like most of us here use?

Actually, for PA/pro use, there are plenty of places to demo JBL's products - Vertec notwithstanding. Much less so on the consumer electronics or audiophile side.

[Thom]

We have had several threads devolve into this conversation... I think it is a symptom of the frustration most of us are feeling as we watch the middle class disappear. Even some of the more astute at the top of the food chain are beginning to become concerned as they realize that it was our large middle class that elevated America to the financial pinnacle of the world... we need a large and healthy middle class to sustain our economy.... many short sighted executives who are exporting our middle class jobs for phenomenal near term profits either don't realize this or just don't care.

Absolutely! One reason that so many JBLs survive is that they were a premium line... today the JBL line is following the trend in the US.... cheap junk for the Best Buy crowd and premium product for those who can afford it... there are almost no stores showcasing the high end, because the wealthy generally would prefer to simply have it installed and set up properly buying equipment that is recommended by the professionals that they hire. I does kind of limit our ability to kick tires... but that is today's marketplace.

I have no idea what JBL offers in he mid priced arena but the Revel "F" series is seriously worth a look.


As for he dumbing down of kids today? I have recently met several younger fellows who very very interested in getting better audio gear to keep up with their superior HD video gear... all is not lost.


Widget

Isn't Revel an example of Harman building a new quality name so that when thew have rung the JBL name for every last penny that the name itself will bring they have a new name to determine what to do with. Rather than an example of JBL still selling good speakers? Have more to post but have not recovered from the power going out just as I was going to hit the "submit reply" button. The world at large is not listening to more poorly reproduced music these days. Most MP3 players sound much better than vinyl did on a cheap BSR changer with a ceramic cartridge. Some may have to ask elders what I'm talking about. By for now.