Speaker Placement a Key to Imaging

[Robh3606]

Just starting a new thread where we can discuss speaker placement as a separate thread from Imaging.

How do you have your speakers set-up?

Long wall/Short wall?

Symmetrical/Asymmetrical WRT placement in the room?

What if any tools did you use aside from you ears?

Did you use any room treatment beyond furnishings and rugs/pads?

How long did it take you to say done?

Or do you continually do slight adjustments like toe-in as an example?

Rob

[DerekTheGreat]

In my living room: It's shaped like a shoe box, short walls are North & South, long walls are East and West. Starting at dead East are bay windows which start at knee height & go up to just about the ceiling and continue just about to the NE corner. Dead North is a flat window, split so the one half can slide open. At the SW corner, there is an entry way, cove style that doesn't go up to the ceiling. At the SE corner, there is an entry way which does go up to the ceiling and accommodates a small foyer for the front door. I call this my bass trap. As for sound treatment, I've got heavy, "old people" style cloth curtains which can span the lengths of the windows. Those things go from the ceiling to the floor. I've got old people Berber carpet, a cloth couch along the West wall and a circular wooden table toward the center of that in the room as well as two leather chairs and a chess/checkers table by the window on the East wall. I have yet to be defeated at chess on that table. Oh, there's a large wooden shelf which accommodates all my records and some trinkets along the south wall. South wall also has late 60's or mid 70's wood paneling on it. I've attached a picture showing how I've got my speakers set up. Subtract the UREI 811C's, scoot the one audio equipment stack to the right and add another one with two more amps in it, and you've got how my current set up looks. I've had different systems set up in different locations in that room, but this is best orientation yet. Bass is more defined & tighter. That's the biggest change I noticed by moving the set up from the long wall to the short wall. Image seems less scattered and more focused as well.

[Mr. Widget]

Excellent idea Rob. I'll reply with images and floor plan sketches when I have a few minutes.


Widget

[BMWCCA]

I've attached a picture showing how I've got my speakers set up. Subtract the UREI 811C's, scoot the one audio equipment stack to the right and add another one with two more amps in it, and you've got how my current set up looks. I've had different systems set up in different locations in that room, but this is best orientation yet.

That's an awesome looking setup.

[hjames]

Posted it elsewhere, so its time here. I found this placement works well for all the various speakers we've had here over the years.
The home is a 4 level split along the long axis - but small, 1800 ft2 overall ...
The stairs placement means no speakers against the wall farthest from my chairs, which worked really well when we tried Magnepans, about 1/3 of the way into the room.
Also worked well with the DCM TF600s and the Von Schweikerts that have rear facing tweeters ...
Imaging is great with the stacked L212s - and quite nice with the customized L200s 3 ways there now.
Lots of plants minimize the glass picture window wall, bookshelves behind my chair also help.
And the old chair from Grandma's home is a fine sleeping spot, with Raffi in place!

[hjames]

Now you see why the Derek/Rusty big UREIs would never have worked here ...
even these smaller ones were stressed

[Mr. Widget]

That's an awesome looking setup.

It is awesome... a great collection.

To me it looks more like "wall of sound" than a setup for good imaging, but awesome is correct.
Below are two approaches...

Example A is more along the lines of Derek's system... Example B is a more restrained "audiophile" approach.

Widget

[DerekTheGreat]

That's an awesome looking setup.

It is awesome... a great collection.

To me it looks more like "wall of sound" than a setup for good imaging, but awesome is correct.
Below are two approaches...

Example A is more along the lines of Derek's system... Example B is a more restrained "audiophile" approach.

Widget

Thank you, fellas! Making me feel good about this stuff. That one dude looks to have some nice gear.
...I've always wondered how the actual Wall of Sound sounded. Did John Curl have anything to do with that?

...The home is a 4 level split along the long axis... ...Lots of plants minimize the glass picture window wall, bookshelves behind my chair also help.
And the old chair from Grandma's home is a fine sleeping spot, with Raffi in place!

That room looks cozy! I dig the windows in the ceiling. Much want for tubby Raffi! Would like to hear your wall of sound with those L212's.

[eso]

My space is small. It's practically a giant pair of headphones. Listening position is approx 12' from the voice coils in the main arrays.

Here's a picture ot a friend and master craftsman from Japan sitting in the main spot. Rich sitting on the floor and I'm standing between the speakers taking the picture.

Sitting where Moriyama is seated, there is no sensation that the speakers are doing anything. The sound is its own entity floating in the room.

I cannot over stress how important the room treatment is to achieving this, as well as having all of the drivers VCs equidistant and focused correctly.

Sorry about all the extra gear cluttering up the space: too many projects...

eso

[hjames]

What a great space, Eso! Those horns!
No apologies for living with projects - it's just what we do!

[toddalin]

Room is 26 feet across and speaker centers are at 7.5 feet so (26 - 7.5)/2 = 9.25 feet. Room is symetrical.

Cabinets are up against the front wall and are 30" deep.

Room is 16 feet deep and speakers are 2.5 feet deep and up to the wall so baffles are at 2.5 feet.

Couch cushion (sweet spot) is 10.5 feet out from speakers so 16 - 2.5 - 10.5 = seating is 3 feet from back wall. When I lean forward, away from the cushions, things get better. The speakers are toed in to the sweet spot using a laser pointer.

Front wall is 16 feet high and back wall is 7.5 feet.

[Ian Mackenzie]

My situation is still a work in progress.

I bought the property a few years ago and at the outset l decided to completely renovate the downstairs living / kitchen space. l have some sketches of the planned set up. See attached.

How do you have your speakers set-up?
I have the main L+ R M2 loudspeakers on the front wall. The long wall wasn’t practical.

Everything is symmetrical. The mains are located with the baffle 75 cm off the front wall. The listening position is 275 cm from the front wall with a 200 cm equilateral triangle type set up. The primary mains are 4345 clones and M2 monitors. The overall room dimensions are 5.4 x 6 metres. The front wall is 4.0 metre due to a stair case and HWC.

What if any tools did you use aside from your ears?
REW was used to determine the modal room frequencies and the reverberation time. An online program was used to determine the location of the side, rear and covered loudspeakers for a Dolby Atmos set up. An acoustic consultant spec’d the room for a critical listening space.

Did you use any room treatment beyond furnishings and rugs/pads? See attachment. The main aims were the first reflection points, bring the reverberation time down and reduce the ringing at the modal frequencies. There are four different treatments. Veneered plywood will be used for equipment racks and a control side cart adjacent the listening position.

How long did it take you to say done? About 18 months+

Some initial tests were done with several different loudspeakers. Not so much toe in but the listening position for the smoothest bass performance. This was validated using REW.

All the treatment is now installed and it’s night and day compared it how it was originally.

The M2 mains will be angled directly at the listening position.

[DerekTheGreat]

eso, your room is awesome. The sound treatment looks natural. I don't think I could do anything to my room without it standing out. Can also tell toddalin is into Corvettes, even the "lowly" C4.

[BMWCCA]

What a great space, Eso! Those horns!
No apologies for living with projects - it's just what we do!

And, apparently, another vote for the Poang listening chair! I'm up to four now, all in leather, with footstools.

[Robh3606]

Very nice rooms and systems!!

With set-up no one uses set-up CD's?? Back in the day I used the JBL sessions, Shure Cartridge, High Fidelity and the classic Bob and Ray throws a Stereo Spectacular LP to help verify proper phase, cartridge set-up and tracking, frequency sweeps and so on.

With modern set-up CD's they are much more useful they have tracks to verify imaging, subwoofer integration and many other helpful tracks. My favorite in the Delos Surround Set Up disk

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Rob


https://www.amazon.com/Dolby-Surroun.../dp/B000000703