Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: What Happened?!

  1. #1
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,983

    What Happened?!

    This is waaay

    I stumbled across this image recently and it got me thinking. What has happened to our expectations and dreams. In 1971 American Airlines was offering this type of luxury (sure it is dated and probably dangerous with those heavy nut bowls flying around the cabin) but in an attempt to increase their passenger numbers they removed seats and added luxury. In 1968 in Stanley Kubrick's film 2001: A Space Odyssey Pan Am was offering similar luxury on their flights into space. As we know Pan Am never made it to 2001, much less space. In the 60's and early 70's there was an optimism that we could accomplish anything. Work hard and put the best minds to it and anything was possible. JBL was building speakers with beautifully hand crafted cabinets and exquisitely machined and finished drivers buried in them that no one would ever see but their pride of craft made them do it instead of shaving pennies to maximize profits with unfinished frames and magnets.

    In the 80's with the deregulation of the airline industry and the financial gymnastics of the "Me Generation" we see American Airlines inventing a new way to attract passengers with the AAdvantage Program. This was the first frequent flyer program and it allowed passengers to "get something for nothing". Also during the 80's Sam Walton's Five and Dime store burst out of Arkansas and the South with it's SuperCenters and Sam's Clubs. The American Marketplace loudly proclaiming we want more for less. Now they weren't asking for more quality, they just wanted more. Today we expect to pay ridiculously little for things. We expect to fly to London for $200 and we expect to buy a complete Hi-Fi for $500. Today the successful airlines are those like Southwest who are flying Greyhound Busses in the sky. They have less room, less non-stops, less food, less service.

    Recently a friend was out of town on business he asked one of the guys he was working with where was a good place to get breakfast in that town. He was told to go to Shoneys. He asked, "Is the food really good?" The answer was, "Well no, but it is all you can eat!"

    I guess that pretty much sums it up... this _ _ _ _ is almost as good, but it's cheap!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,983
    BTW: That Luxury lounge above... it was in coach!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #3
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    7,007

    Virgin Atlantic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    ...What has happened to our expectations and dreams.
    Richard Branson is our friend...

    Dood, this is why I long-ago lost my super-dooper status in United. I fly across the small water at-least once a year, and during the mid-1990's I flew at-least once a month either there, or South America. When Virgin arrived in the US, there were (and still are...) no other choices of merit. These days, I take the o/n SFO -> Heathrow, then grab a day-room and the onward o/n to Johannesburg. It is the ONLY way to fly.

    Branson took the dreams (and promises) of other carriers, stripped-out the corporate overhead and offers that service for competitive fares, nearly worldwide.

    Take a trip...

    (the first three are on-board; the last is a lame-o shot of a lounge. The lounge in Johannesburg is phenomenal - screaming hot vids (in stereo) on the wall in the showers. Great way to start a 28-hr journey... )
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  4. #4
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,983
    OK, but Bo did you read the text? That pic is in economy class! First class has tables for four in their restaurant!!!

    Besides I think the issue is much larger than a wide body jet.

    Widget

  5. #5
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    7,007
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    OK, but Bo did you read the text? That pic is in economy class! First class has tables for four in their restaurant!!!
    Yea, I did. But the point is they could have. Branson offers wonderfully upscaled service in all classes.

    Remember the TWA flights using the Constellation equipment? Or the B-377 Stratocruiser? Those comforts were out there, for a while.

    Excess capacity wiped out margins. The business WAS good, and attracted too many competitors - barriers to entry were not high enough. Everyone suffered, particularly as they consumed other's routes and diverse equipment. Terrible business model...
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  6. #6
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    10,036

    Heh, heh.

    Looks like they DREW the bridge in there.

    [It's never looked like that....]

  7. #7
    Senior Member Donald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, CA
    Posts
    524
    And now we have the Airbus A380.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4174729.stm
    had L25,L36,L40,L120,L222,L300,AquariusIV(2),S1,4408
    have L65,L100,L222,DorianS12,B380

  8. #8
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Våle, Norway
    Posts
    1,159
    Yeah the society has been moving towards measuring quality in quantity terms for a long time.

    Look at your kids - I want this - I want that. The minute they have it there is another thing wanted, one week later it is likely to be forgotten. Things/Objects seldom make a lasting impression. People, interactions and feelings make a lasting impression.

    Questions you might ask yourself are: Is this what I really want? How does this impact me and my closest family?

    2 years ago I changed job. No more long hours. No more chasing status. Half income. More time with my family. In these two years I have made more permanent memories than the 10 years before that. Today my kids remember what we do together...

    I believe this problem is due to one of the flaws with capitalism. Profit maximation requires high volumes. In order to make a sellable product you will have to quantify. We are formed by the advertising we get from tv et.c.

    I could change my main pair speakers with 20+ pairs of other speakers at the same cost. But I won't. Would you?
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

  9. #9
    Senior Member Donald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, CA
    Posts
    524
    Looks like Airbus did not learn from the 747 history. Pics of new A380.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    had L25,L36,L40,L120,L222,L300,AquariusIV(2),S1,4408
    have L65,L100,L222,DorianS12,B380

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wardsweb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    831
    --turn on soap box--<turn on="" soap="" box="">

    It's a general collapse of the family as we know it. What started out as giving our kids some freedom turned into less expectations, that now prevail in almost all aspects of life for us and them. The standards bar has been set way to low. A lack of taking responsibility and owning up to the consequences of our actions. So, if you don't expect quality, you won't get it. If you are not held responsible for shoddy work, why spend the extra time and effort to produce it? Less respect for parents, figures of authority and even less respect for themselves.

    Instill values and worth in your children, hold them responsible for their actions, expect excellence and they will grow up a better person.

    --turn off soap box--
    </turn>

  11. #11
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    2,045
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald
    Looks like Airbus did not learn from the 747 history. Pics of new A380.
    I like this last paragraph from the BBC article you cited. I have no doubt that the latter alternative is the one that will prevail. Moooooooo....

    There are real concerns that rather than being a giant luxury transporter that brings greater comforts to customers, the A380 might be used as a 'cattle-class' transporter for the masses by airlines struggling to recoup their costs.
    Regards

    Don McRitchie

  12. #12
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,983

    From the soap box

    This is a soap box thread!

    Thank you Wardsweb. I wasn't talking about airplanes.

    "The standards bar has been set way to low. A lack of taking responsibility and owning up to the consequences of our actions."

    "Less respect for parents, figures of authority and even less respect for themselves."

    I agree completely. Unfortunately we must lead by example, both our leaders and ourselves. We have to earn the respect of our children. Children aren't stupid. They see adults saying one thing and doing another. They see us lie, cheat, act racist... They become us. I think the decomposition of the family and respect for authority has come from a lack of role models at home and in positions of power. I heard an FDR speech from 1939 on the radio the other day. The President was apologizing to the American people for his personal short comings and some mistake he had made, (I was so amazed by the contrast between that speech and what we hear today I forgot what the screw up was. I believe it was an economic issue dealing with the depression.) He was accepting responsibility for his actions. This isn't a Democrat vs. Republican deal. Both sides are equally to blame. There is no need to finger point here there are far too many targets.

    Family values has become a political bumper sticker and little else. I agree that if we instill a feeling of worth in the individual and respect for all people including authority figures we will be better off. Our societal lowering of expectations is exemplified by, "Don't steal, you may get caught and go to jail." WRONG!!! It used to be don't steal, because all of society will loose respect for you. Did Ken Lay and most of American business learn this? Apparently not.


    I would summit we don't need "Family Values". We need higher values.

    To bring this back around to Lansing Heritage, our lowering of expectations (and values) is a very good example of why JBL's best product is sold primarily in Japan and in Europe.

    "Why won't JBL sell this stuff to us?" ...Because we won't buy it! We don't appreciate the value of quality and integrity.

  13. #13
    Webmaster Don McRitchie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    2,045
    Sorry about being off topic in an off topic thread.

    While I agree with most of what has been written above, I can't say that I see anything that will reverse this trend. I tend to agree with Widget that there is a values deficit in general and family values is not much more than a political rallying call. I'm not sure if the following is a symptom or a cause, but I see an ever increasing role of the marketplace in defining values. For some libertarians, this may be the desired goal. However, I see nothing but trouble when the market becomes the arbiter of societal values.

    As evidence, think back on the saying "It doesn't matter who wins or loses, it's how you play the game." I can't think of a time when this sentiment had any less relevance than it does today. It is all about winning and losing. The market rewards questionable and even outright illegal behavior, as long as it results in your winning financially. Think of some of the current sports heroes as examples. Or think of Enron, Worldcom or Tyco if you want corporate examples. These firms were handsomely rewarded by the market for deceitful behavior. Any decision that results in short term profits is stunningly encouraged by the market. Therefore, Walmart and the cost cutting airlines will be rewarded for their improved bottom lines no matter what the societal effects are. Those effects just don't enter the picture.



    This trickles down into our personal lives. More and more we are defined by our perceived financial success. Hence the drive for the bigger car, the bigger house etc. The entire nation has taken on unprecedented levels of personal debt to pursue this illusion. Americans are working longer hours, with more family members working outside of the home than any time in recent history. Is it any wonder that “family values” have a hard time surviving in this environment?

    Don't get me wrong, my point is not any kind of tirade against capitalism. I'm a strong believer in market based economies. However, I do believe that society is defined by more than just its market economy. My fear is that popular culture and the media are imposing the latter definition more and more each day to society’s detriment.


    Don<O</O<O</O

  14. #14
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    7,007

    "I wasn't talking about airplanes...."

    Quote Originally Posted by Don McRitchie
    Sorry about being off topic in an off topic thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don McRitchie
    <O</O<O</O
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    ...American Airlines was offering this type of luxury... Pan Am was offering similar luxury on their flights into space. ... In the 80's with the deregulation of the airline industry and the financial gymnastics of the "Me Generation" we see American Airlines inventing a new way to attract passengers with the AAdvantage Program. ...Today the successful airlines are those like Southwest who are flying Greyhound Busses in the sky. They have less room, less non-stops, less food, less service.
    Since this is a hifi Forum, I ignored the stuff that was close to on-topic, and focussed on the anecdotal. Oh well...

    IMO, kids today are no different then we were, then. We all want more of whatever tastes, sounds, looks, and feels great. The evolution is that awareness of what is "out there" comes so much earlier than in the past. That makes it harder to give guidance and encourage hardwork for true "needs" rather than "want, want want".

    Threads like this get complicated. Widget - why aren't you BUILDING something!!
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  15. #15
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Mass
    Posts
    889

    Refreshing...

    It's amazing to me that based solely on our common adoration of Lansing products, we all come to the table with remarkably similar views. I couldn't agree more with what's been said here so far. My wife and I talk about this sort of thing all the time, as do many of my friends. It's unfortunate that we all appear to be in the minority - and a dying breed to boot. All of the astounding events in the US of the last decade that you'd think would be huge societal wake-up calls (like Columbine, Enron and 9/11) have somehow faded into the footnotes of history instead of becoming rallying cries for reform.

    I guess all each of us can do is to make the right choices in our own lives and hope that these small contributions will add up. It's the "think globally, act locally" mentality and I'm afraid it's rare. Only by making rational choices as parents, consumers and people can we hope to make things better on a global scale.

    I consider myself lucky to have stumbled into this site and found not only a wealth of info about JBL products, but a tremendous community of people who care about a lot more than speakers.

    jblnut

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What Happened to the Library?
    By markymark in forum Forum Feedback
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-28-2004, 11:15 AM
  2. Xmax questions
    By johnaec in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-19-2004, 10:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •