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Thread: Is home HIFI dead ???

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi jBL Guy,


    I like your humour and your right.

    Way back in normal normal 2008 I spent two weeks in JP with our friend Steve K who guided me around the HiFi mafia of Electric City.
    Most of the evenings were spent embracing something close to the most pure alcohol but we did sneak in some jBL time.

    One bar we visited was old school with barely room to move. On the bar they had a pair of Pass Aleph 2's. A match made in heaven pumping 140 watts of glorious SE power through a pair of gorgeous 4343's soffit mounted. It was all vinyl and really cool Jazz being played back then. Verbal speaking was forbidden....An amazing experience. No chatting.

    To sum it up they know their music and they know their hifi. If you think you've got you head around hifi or the high end in the USA that's cool. We all have our journey that's for sure.

    But its all about style if you've got deep enough pockets. I visited several high rise hifi establishments while in the hifi district and its not uncommon for the President of Toyota apparently to arrive in a convey and spend several hours listening to a system with the whole top three floors to himself and then raising his eye brows. The transaction is done.

    An important decision. No waf to be considered.

    It's a whole different level of understanding to appreciate what hifi means to them. It's deeply embraced in symbolism and its spiritual. They worship their sound systems. I do too and so do you and this is why a JBL system is the peak of the mountain to them. Keep improving the 4343's as JBL did.... both in the USA and in Japan and it reaches the peak of their mountain. That's what JBL did. A decade later the S9800 arrived. Greg Timbers was their god without any doubt. Greg had their absolute true which is a really big deal in the Japanese culture.

    Back down on planet earth you can make any system sing within reason if your put the effort in for long enough.

    Unfortunately, in recent times those bar's have declined because things change. It's pretty sad. And that is why when someone NEW turns ups up HERE and no matter how crazy their ideas are I try and help them because they are the future of this legacy. Isn't that our cause? No question is too difficult. At the start we all knew nothing. Fuck all.

    It's not about you and its not about me. It's about nurturing the next generation and the generation after that. What's the big difference with JBL? Why? And helping fulfil their experience with JBL. Their journey might take 20 years just like it did yours and mine and then they will pass on what they've learned and experienced.
    Well retro is big right now so maybe somehow these new younger folks will want to explore some of the great stuff from the past. Which can easily be used in the present.
    Look at all the young guys who want 60's, 70's or 80's retro cars or trucks. Vintage is big currently.
    We need more places playing speakers of the past to show what can be found from the past.
    I'm still very AMAZED by all the really high end companies making stuff for home audio. How do they all survive selling amps and speakers for those kinds of monies?

  2. #62
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    My own perspective is young people up to their late 30ís spend money on their Nissan Navara Warrior , jet skis and the outdoors.

    So itís about seeing the brand in that demographic.

    The suitcase loudspeaker brigade is the hipster.

    My thinking is the 7 series monitors as they are right into recordings at home

    These young people are smart and they are tech savvy

    Itís the bloke in his 40ís who will aspire to the status of a legacy hero system. That is the break away point from consumer high fidelity with its inherent dynamic limitations.

    Iím looking at it logically if there is such a thing with consumer entertainment

  3. #63
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    Sunday School

    As for hi end hi fi. It’s the AR3 on steroids type of thing. It’s nonsense when you think about it.

    The new Purfi drivers might change that perception.

    Good sound does not mean hi end prices. Sorry Mr Widget.

    I find the notion of hi end akin to garage manufacturing with micro turnovers and massive pocket liner margins. It’s all marketing mystic. It an elitist luxury niche. It always was and always will be. The more expensive it is the more they will pay for it mentality.

    The law of diminishing returns sets in real quick with consumer hifi. Even more so with hi end. It’s shades of grey. Green felt tip pen territory with the buffs arguing over psycho acoustic subliminal perceptions while they listen with their eyes wide shut. It’s utter BS. They are enamoured in snake oil and enriched with looking to the stars with Maslow’s model of hierarchy status.

    Yes l sold the clapped out BMW and bought a VPI TNT turntable so l can self actualise. (Regulate my emotions).

    The problem is that “lot” of wankers won’t buy it unless it’s very expensive because they will doubt it’s any good. Holly bat crap.

    Change of subject

    The End Game
    We know it’s easier to design a full size JBL system than a small one for it sound good. (Per Greg Timbers recent interview). But who wants to pay Harmaniser prices? So we clever people go full circle to cloning a full size system for jam money (just about). Or roll your own project loudspeaker.

    The world turns in circles and so do we.

    Edit
    Someone on the LHS compared my writing style (here at least) with William T. Vollmann. No l am not a cross dresser…Lol
    https://www.newyorker.com/books/page...s-dressing/amp

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblguy View Post
    I always wondered if there was not some kind of market for really big and awesome setups in these homes. I mean if you own several nice cars and all the other toys, get a big ass stereo system to go along with it. Impress all those you're already trying to impress with such a stupid big house. If I had a house that big I'd bet you for certain that I'd rarely even visit or go in some of those rooms. I'm only one guy and a wife. Some of these homes are so big they make no sense to me as a home to live in. They must be big cold places.
    So I thought if these folks saw some really nice setup they might bite.
    I work in homes like you are describing. 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 square feet and often with a pool house that is bigger than my house. Some of them have garages filled with multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and more. Virtually none of the owners want a big ass system.

    We install dozens of TVs and hundreds of speakers in these homes, but rarely do the rooms sound as good as a typical Forum member's system. That isn't the goal. They want invisible sound everywhere and it must be easy to use... don't get me wrong, often times we put in stunning home theaters or outdoor party systems that sound like Jimmy Page stopped by to jam in your back yard, but a dedicated stereo system? Almost never.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Good sound does not mean hi end prices. Sorry Mr Widget.
    Are you saying that I am ripping off my clients with high prices, or that I've wasted money on TAD drivers, are you apologizing for something, or none of the above? Sometimes your posts are a bit confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    As for hi end hi fi. It’s the AR3 on steroids type of thing.
    I would agree with that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    It’s nonsense when you think about it.
    You lost me there. Are you talking about the uber pricy stuff? I don't know who buys that stuff. See above, though obviously someone is buying it.
    But speakers like the Revel Performa3 series and B&W 700 series as well as many other similar speakers from Paradigm and others are quite good and while not inexpensive they are similarly priced to those from AR when considering inflation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    The law of diminishing returns sets in real quick with consumer hifi. Even more so with hi end. It’s shades of grey. Green felt tip pen territory with the buffs arguing over psycho acoustic subliminal perceptions while they listen with their eyes wide shut. It’s utter BS. They are enamoured in snake oil and enriched with looking to the stars with Maslow’s model of hierarchy status.
    Again we are in full agreement... and often you can't even talk these guys out of it. I have come to the conclusion that if the device (a cable, a tube amp, a gold plated doily) makes the person happy, then why not. At the end of the day this is neither rocket science nor medicine... no one will die from a stupid audio decision.



    Widget

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I work in homes like you are describing. 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 square feet and often with a pool house that is bigger than my house. Some of them have garages filled with multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and more. Virtually none of the owners want a big ass system.
    That said, we are working on one project where the home owner does want a big ass system and he got it. In the main pavilion of the multi-building complex there is a full on private night club system with stacks of 18" subs including infrasonic subs. In another location he is getting some custom horn speakers designed and built by a fellow in Germany (No, its no one from the Forum) and all of this is on a private island in the British Virgin Islands.

    Currently the entire project is under NDA, but we may get permission to publish some details for marketing purposes. If we do I'll share more... the project is a real life James Bond evil villain lair. Fortunately the client is far from being an evil villain.


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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    . . . Fortunately the client is far from being an evil villain.
    Widget
    More Thomas Crownish?
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I work in homes like you are describing. 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 square feet and often with a pool house that is bigger than my house. Some of them have garages filled with multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and more. Virtually none of the owners want a big ass system.

    We install dozens of TVs and hundreds of speakers in these homes, but rarely do the rooms sound as good as a typical Forum member's system. That isn't the goal. They want invisible sound everywhere and it must be easy to use... don't get me wrong, often times we put in stunning home theaters or outdoor party systems that sound like Jimmy Page stopped by to jam in your back yard, but a dedicated stereo system? Almost never.

    Are you saying that I am ripping off my clients with high prices, or that I've wasted money on TAD drivers, are you apologizing for something, or none of the above? Sometimes your posts are a bit confusing.


    Widget
    Firstly,

    This thread is just a general discussion and you are making an agree / disagree thread.

    Calm down. Your the one that’s reacting. There’s nothing judgemental about it.

    You recently told me in your job you get to experience amazing hi end equipment.
    In your post history you aspire to owning and experiencing hi end equipment.

    Wonderful. Happy for you. Good times.

    That’s your prerogative. It’s your choice. I don’t have to apologise for anything.

    No one’s judging you. Aren’t you being hard on yourself? You take your self too seriously.

    The funny thing is the first time l met you and we sat down for dinner l laughed about your perceptions of hi fi and hi end sound. You said to me was l being disrespectful. Really?
    I said no because we are all entitled to our opinions and our own view on hifi.

    It’s like buy a car. Not every buys a Rolls. I think some peoples are purchases are funny.

    Here you are very sensitive again.

    We not here to worship what you do or how you think about audio. We don’t have to and why should we?

    What l’m saying is not everyone has to accept those choices nor do they have to respect those decisions.

    If the world was like that there’d be a massive pecking order and class system.

    I stand by the statement in my last post.

    Where people go wrong is they become obsessed and very precious over the justification. That’s not my problem. It’s their problem. If you going to get that hung up on the justification why do it?
    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 06-12-2022 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Typos

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Firstly,

    This thread is just a general discussion and you are making an agree / disagree thread.
    I must have missed your point. I thought you were addressing me and I was trying to understand where you were going.

    Carry on. I'll leave you to it.


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  9. #69
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    Thank you darling.

    Well itís nearly sleep time here and one must not get self absorbed in such minor things in life.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    That said, we are working on one project where the home owner does want a big ass system and he got it. In the main pavilion of the multi-building complex there is a full on private night club system with stacks of 18" subs including infrasonic subs. In another location he is getting some custom horn speakers designed and built by a fellow in Germany (No, its no one from the Forum) and all of this is on a private island in the British Virgin Islands.

    Currently the entire project is under NDA, but we may get permission to publish some details for marketing purposes. If we do I'll share more... the project is a real life James Bond evil villain lair. Fortunately the client is far from being an evil villain.


    Widget
    Well that all sounds like a ton of fun to me. Your so fortunate to be able to do those things.
    Are the horn being built by that German horn guy
    https://www.hornsolutions.de/
    I understand if your not able to say. I'd love to hear what your working on. Maybe as you said you can show some pics if they agree for your marketing.
    Very interesting what you say about everyone wanting everything hidden. What fun is that? i kinda get in a home theater maybe. But for super cool music setup I'm surprised these 40yr something's don't say "cool" more often.
    I suppose my "dream store " would flop like a wet donut on concrete.
    I suppose the internet has made it possible to sell stuff like OMA makes or that German horn guy above.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblguy View Post
    Well that all sounds like a ton of fun to me. Your so fortunate to be able to do those things.
    Are the horn being built by that German horn guy
    https://www.hornsolutions.de/
    Yes, at times it is a blast... at other times, it's a job. And unfortunately jobs are not hobbies.

    Not Horn Solutions. The client found the maker and we have been working with him for a custom build.

    https://martion.de/gallery/

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    Those look lovely. I'm amazed by how many speakers are out there that are new to me. Thanks for that link. That's what makes this so much fun. Endless possibilities.
    I'm sure he'll be very pleased by how you set him up. Is that for 2 channel use? Does he chopper you in?

  13. #73
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    My observations are that its merchant bankers, lawyers and dentists who rotate serious money on hi end audio. They are introverts.

    I know of one importer here who flew out the president of a principle horn loudspeaker business from the EU to commission a system in Byron Bay.

    Up here we have lots of hi end homes in Noosa with the kind of set up your referring to. These homes are let to film stars.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    My observations are that its merchant bankers, lawyers and dentists who rotate serious money on hi end audio. They are introverts.

    I know of one importer here who flew out the president of a principle horn loudspeaker business from the EU to commission a system in Byron Bay.

    Up here we have lots of hi end homes in Noosa with the kind of set up your referring to. These homes are let to film stars.
    Maybe if more people heard these systems they'd buy more of them. I imagine most of those rich folks are pretty private so it' might be hard to ever hear anything like we all have or strive for.
    I thought this story was helpful to our hobby. I like what he has to say mostly. I certainly respect him for basically doing it his way. He obviously has the passion as well as the business aspirations. Bravo to him. I think we could hang out and get along.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoN4mleFlvA

  15. #75
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    Maybe but you have to have the means and itís about priorities of course.

    I think the people who buy this stuff have a private banker. Income around $500K a year. Stock brokers, surgeons, lawyers but they are not movie stars. They have a relatively small social structure and with new money and they like expensive things like cars, watches and hi end hifi. Itís self indulgence. They might live in a flashy inner city apartment. But they donít have intimidating wealth. I had a career as a cbd banker and you get good intel on what they do with their discretionary income when they apply for a home loan. They are the hi end money tree. This is my opinion only.

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