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Thread: Box and Tweeter recos for 4 Way Build: 2245J (Mid) + 2202H (Low Mid) + 2225H (Low)

  1. #1
    Member Stampants's Avatar
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    Box and Tweeter recos for 4 Way Build: 2245J (Mid) + 2202H (Low Mid) + 2225H (Low)

    Box and Tweeter recos for 4 Way Build: 2245J (Mid) + 2202H (Low Mid) + 2225H (Low).

    Hi! Got these components and would want to build a horn based 4 way system with Minidsp and Dirac handling time alignment, eq, and crossover.

    Intended use is for a low distortion, high efficiency home speaker.
    Max of 80-85db usage range.

    Plan to use a Yuichi Horn (but open to suggestions)

    Planned xover usages:

    2245J: 600hz to 6000hz
    2202H: 200hz to 600hz
    2225H: 20hz to 200hz

    A few questions:

    1. Can anybody recommend a JBL tweeter to partner with this design (hopefully of the same vintage). And the best way to implement it given the other parameters (top mount, mated to another horn, bullet???)

    2. Any box plan recommendations? Max I can do for width is 18" and Max I can do for height including the horns is 42". Someone said to me to seal the 12" midbass inside the box and give all the free space inside to the 15" woofer to extended it's LF (dunno if Im making sense here haha)

    3. Are there any better options rather than a yuichi horn given my xover goals?

    4. Any xover slope recommendations (leaning towards 12db/oct BW)?

    5. Were there any other JBL products manufactured that featured these 3 components 2245J / 2202H / 2225H?

    Thank you in advance for the answers attached are the pics of the components.Name:  JBL Driver 1.jpg
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Size:  140.2 KBName:  JBL driver 2.jpg
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  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I moved your thread to the Lansing DIY area as it seems more appropriate.

    My 2 cents.
    I would eliminate the 2202H or use it up to 900-1000Hz instead of cutting it off at 600Hz. The larger Yuichi horn will sound even better crossed over a bit higher and the 2202H will at least be doing something it does better than the 2225H... at 600Hz, they both perform equally well and adding additional drivers and filters create more problems than they fix.

    The 2405H is the no brainer tweeter answer, but they are getting harder and harder to find in good condition. A Fostex super tweeter would also be suitable. Tannoy's add on high output dome super tweeter might also be an option, though rare and costly too.

    For the 2225H; since you have a DSP, you might want to explore a B6 alignment.


    Widget

  3. #3
    Member Stampants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I moved your thread to the Lansing DIY area as it seems more appropriate.

    My 2 cents.
    I would eliminate the 2202H or use it up to 900-1000Hz instead of cutting it off at 600Hz. The larger Yuichi horn will sound even better crossed over a bit higher and the 2202H will at least be doing something it does better than the 2225H... at 600Hz, they both perform equally well and adding additional drivers and filters create more problems than they fix.

    The 2405H is the no brainer tweeter answer, but they are getting harder and harder to find in good condition. A Fostex super tweeter would also be suitable. Tannoy's add on high output dome super tweeter might also be an option, though rare and costly too.

    For the 2225H; since you have a DSP, you might want to explore a B6 alignment.


    Widget
    Thank you for the tip!

    I currently run a 2 way with the 2445J and the 2225h with the minidsp crossed at 600hz using Joseph Crowe's es600 horn (24db LR as crossover with DIRAC live room correction) missing out some midbass oomph, that's why Im considering using the 12" JBl to at least give presence from 200hz-800hz.

    So the tip to make the xover higher makes sense to me maybe I can do the 700-800hz. I just really like it when the horn covers most of the midrange.

    For the 2225h will a recone to 2235h and some box vent manipulations make it go further to 30hz?

    Also if I proceed to using the 2202H is better to enclose it in a sealed chamber within the box that houses both woofers/ Plan to just put a horn on top of the cabinet.

    By B6 do you mean a 6db/oct Butterworth slope only for the low woofer or throughout the other crossovers?

    Thank you so much, your reply helps :-)

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  4. #4
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Yes, a 2235H will give you significantly deeper bass response.

    If you are going to recone, I'd use the 2235H kit without the mass ring. Leaving off the mass ring makes the woofer a 2234H which is a little lacking in the last octave, but has a bit more upper bass clarity and punch. You can regain the bottom with your DSP.

    The B6 alignment is an alternative to the standard B4 alignment that most vented boxes use. Going with a B6 requires a different tuning which changes the system Q and requires a custom tailored EQ curve that boosts the bottom and then sharply cuts off the VLF below the system resonance... going this route is probably best not tackled by an inexperienced DIYer.


    Widget

  5. #5
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    The 2225 is basically a 40hz woofer at best. The 2235 is a 30hz woofer, usually housed in a 5 cu.ft. NET box.

    Pictures can be somewhat tricky, but i'm not sure looking at your box picture that it meets the usual 5 cu.ft. for a 2235. You might have to build a larger one to get natural bass (i.e. without DSP) down to 30hz and flat. Box tuning may also need to be different from the present one.

    Richard

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    Member Stampants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Yes, a 2235H will give you significantly deeper bass response.

    If you are going to recone, I'd use the 2235H kit without the mass ring. Leaving off the mass ring makes the woofer a 2234H which is a little lacking in the last octave, but has a bit more upper bass clarity and punch. You can regain the bottom with your DSP.

    The B6 alignment is an alternative to the standard B4 alignment that most vented boxes use. Going with a B6 requires a different tuning which changes the system Q and requires a custom tailored EQ curve that boosts the bottom and then sharply cuts off the VLF below the system resonance... going this route is probably best not tackled by an inexperienced DIYer.


    Widget
    thanks for the tip.

    did a bit of research on the b6 alignment.

    agree that it is way out of my depth hahahahaha

  7. #7
    Member Stampants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    The 2225 is basically a 40hz woofer at best. The 2235 is a 30hz woofer, usually housed in a 5 cu.ft. NET box.

    Pictures can be somewhat tricky, but i'm not sure looking at your box picture that it meets the usual 5 cu.ft. for a 2235. You might have to build a larger one to get natural bass (i.e. without DSP) down to 30hz and flat. Box tuning may also need to be different from the present one.

    Richard
    agree! Building out a new cabinet for my question.

    doubt I can go larger than 18w x 42h x 15d though, so ill be lowering my expectations hahaha

  8. #8
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    The dimensions you're giving lead to a 6.6 cu.ft. box, though these might be exterior dimensions, it should be ok for a target of 5 cu.ft. NET, since the overvolume represents 32% more. Might not need to go larger than that to satisfy expectations.

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    Member Stampants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    The dimensions you're giving lead to a 6.6 cu.ft. box, though these might be exterior dimensions, it should be ok for a target of 5 cu.ft. NET, since the overvolume represents 32% more. Might not need to go larger than that to satisfy expectations.
    Yup! But the cabinet also contains the 2202 with that dimension. Do I just seal the 12Ē midbass and target the rest of the space for an approximate 5cu ft? 🙂

  10. #10
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    I thought you were going without the 2202 since Widget's first suggestion was to eliminate the 2202. My misunderstanding then.

    Typically JBL used the 2202 in a 1.6 or 1.7 cu.ft. sub-chamber sealed box. Well, if 6.6 cu.ft. (int. dim.) - 1.6 cu.ft. you're down to 5 cu.ft. already, and have not yet accounted for space taken in the box by other drivers, bracing, vent, horn, etc. You need to calculate all that.

    Seems you could be short on volume with the max dimensions you previously mentioned. Something might have to give, or you need to manage your low bass expectations...

    Its possible you end-up closer to a 4 - 4.5 cu.ft. net volume. Still worth going for 2235? Or stick with 2225? For you to decide.

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    One way to have that cake and eat it too is to make a smaller, under 2 cf closed box for the 2202 and horn and set it on top of your now easier to optimize low frequency box. Works here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stampants View Post
    Yup! But the cabinet also contains the 2202 with that dimension. Do I just seal the 12Ē midbass and target the rest of the space for an approximate 5cu ft? 🙂

  12. #12
    Senior Member mark214's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Love that horn and the other horns on Joseph Crowe's site

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    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    2202H inthe small seald box

    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    I thought you were going without the 2202 since Widget's first suggestion was to eliminate the 2202. My misunderstanding then.

    Typically JBL used the 2202 in a 1.6 or 1.7 cu.ft. sub-chamber sealed box. Well, if 6.6 cu.ft. (int. dim.) - 1.6 cu.ft. you're down to 5 cu.ft. already, and have not yet accounted for space taken in the box by other drivers, bracing, vent, horn, etc. You need to calculate all that.

    Seems you could be short on volume with the max dimensions you previously mentioned. Something might have to give, or you need to manage your low bass expectations...

    Its possible you end-up closer to a 4 - 4.5 cu.ft. net volume. Still worth going for 2235? Or stick with 2225? For you to decide.
    Hi RMC,

    Interestingly, if You try to simulate the 2202H FR response using 20Lit and 50 Lit sealed box, the result would differ very small, just a few Hertz in LF section lower then 100Hz, so using 2235 driver up to 400~500Hz would neglect such "problem". So if the total box size is a problem, smaller sealed box for 2202H driver can be applied. I would suggest using a piece of 'plastic' pipe (diameter about 32cm) filled with absorber foam as an acceptable material for the sealed box mounted between front and rear baffles.

    Regards
    Ivica

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    Hallo

    You have probably considered this, but if you have the space, why not go all the way and make a set of JBL 4355? Or a JBL 4355 in a cabinet inspired by Westlake speakers if you are keen on the Yuichi Horn
    You almost have all the drivers.

    2245J
    2202H
    2225H

    you only need

    1 pcs 2225 (2pcs 2235H)
    1 pcs 2405

    if it was me, I will add the Ultra high (JBL 2405) anyway. That just add the extra top

    If you still what to go the way you have been starting with,
    then there is a thread here in this forum there is called JBL 4355 minus one woofer (as I recall) you can read, I think there will be a lot of good information in there for you.
    Because if you only has room for one woofer, then I think you will have too much high compare to the low end.


    I also have seen a thread here in this forum when someone what to change the two 2235H in the 4355 to two 2225H but can't find it.


    BR
    Manley



  15. #15
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Ivica,

    Thanks for the input. I have not modeled the 2202 but you seem to have. So i'll take your 2202 cab size info as worthy as cash money. In my post i simply used the volume that JBL has taken for 2202 in 4350/4355, seemed reasonable at 45 liters or so.

    I'm glad to learn, and the OP will be glad to know, that he may be able to get away with a 20 liter sub box, therefore gaining 25 liters of space in his cabinet. I did think that it might be tight for him with his max dimensions.

    Regards,

    Richard

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