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Thread: JBL d130/375 crossover? help

  1. #31
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    ..out of curiosity - does the crossover point change if just the horn is changed but the woofer,mid driver, tweeter remain the same?

    For example instead of the 2397 smith horn you use a 2309-2310 horn lens combination? Is there a different quality of sound that comes from the 2309-2310 than from the smith horn?
    The crossover frequency won't change per se, but you may want to change the crossover frequency when you use a different horn. The horn will have a significant impact on a speaker's sound quality.

    In my opinion most vintage horns have frequency response nonlinearities that can be a challenge to work with if the goal is to end up with a neutral sounding speaker.


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  2. #32
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    that is fascinating. So if I fitted the same 2441 driver to a 537-509 horns and 5009 lens combination, should the crossover no longer be at the 1000hz you posted the diagram down for the smith horn 077 slot tweeter combination?

    would it be better at the 500hz range?

    thank you again Widget!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    The crossover frequency won't change per se, but you may want to change the crossover frequency when you use a different horn. The horn will have a significant impact on a speaker's sound quality.

    In my opinion most vintage horns have frequency response nonlinearities that can be a challenge to work with if the goal is to end up with a neutral sounding speaker.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    that is fascinating. So if I fitted the same 2441 driver to a 537-509 horns and 5009 lens combination, should the crossover no longer be at the 1000hz you posted the diagram down for the smith horn 077 slot tweeter combination?

    would it be better at the 500hz range?
    I have no experience with that horn, so I can only guess. JBL used to cross it over at 500Hz. Physically it is a very small horn for such a low crossover point. I doubt that would be an ideal crossover frequency by today's standards.

    My gut feeling is that the old Hartsfield horn, the 537-509, is really probably not something I would want to listen to in my primary system. That said, it is cool looking and many people have been loving it for a very long time.


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  4. #34
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    Hi Widget,

    I was finally able to install everything, it sounds quite nice but I noticed a little distortion/vibration in one of the d130s.

    At first I worried that I needed to get the d130 reconed - however upon further inspection I saw that a little glue was missing in a small bottom section of the dust cap.

    Would this be what is causing the distortion in the lower range?
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    Would it be okay to apply some adhesive such as this to the section missing the adhesive:
    https://www.simplyspeakers.com/speak...e-mi-3035.html

    And also can this glue be applied over the existing adhesive around the aluminum dust cap without ill effect?

    thanks again so much Widget,


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I have no experience with that horn, so I can only guess. JBL used to cross it over at 500Hz. Physically it is a very small horn for such a low crossover point. I doubt that would be an ideal crossover frequency by today's standards.

    My gut feeling is that the old Hartsfield horn, the 537-509, is really probably not something I would want to listen to in my primary system. That said, it is cool looking and many people have been loving it for a very long time.


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  5. #35
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    You can try adding glue, but my guess is that you probably have a voicecoil that has warped and is slightly out of round. These older drivers have a very narrow gap and it is not at all uncommon to develop a slight rub.

    You can test this by very gently pressing on the cone. If you press straight in and hear a slight scratchy noise you need to repair the driver.


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  6. #36
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    I gently pressed on the cone and didnt hear a slight scratchy sound. So I might be in luck with the glue?
    is that glue one that would be good to use for the aluminum dust cap with the d130 paper cone?

    It seems to say its safe for paper cones and is clear

    again thanks so much,



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    You can try adding glue, but my guess is that you probably have a voicecoil that has warped and is slightly out of round. These older drivers have a very narrow gap and it is not at all uncommon to develop a slight rub.

    You can test this by very gently pressing on the cone. If you press straight in and hear a slight scratchy noise you need to repair the driver.


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  7. #37
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Btw its not the Simply speakers glue you shown that goes around the dust cap (description says foam edge, spider), its rather their black glue made for such work.

    Richard

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    thanks for that - is there a name for this black glue?
    is it the MI2000 that they sell:
    https://www.simplyspeakers.com/speak...e-mi-2000.html

    I had a feeling the clear glue might be their wrong kind of glue which is what prompted me to post here. After showing the pictures of the dustcap, the sales person told me the clear one was the one to get.. but seeing that it was clear and not black, I had my questions.

    Again any further help with this would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks again Richard for the heads up.


    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Btw its not the Simply speakers glue you shown that goes around the dust cap (description says foam edge, spider), its rather their black glue made for such work.

    Richard

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    thanks for that - is there a name for this black glue?
    is it the MI2000 that they sell:
    https://www.simplyspeakers.com/speak...e-mi-2000.html

    I had a feeling the clear glue might be their wrong kind of glue which is what prompted me to post here. After showing the pictures of the dustcap, the sales person told me the clear one was the one to get.. but seeing that it was clear and not black, I had my questions.

    Again any further help with this would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks again Richard for the heads up.
    Not my call, but if it was me, I would head for a JBL shop or similar. As Richard says, those adhesives are unique; developed for that purpose. It looks to me like the cap was never installed properly. Suspect it would be wise to do a remove, clean and replace . . . but with the correct adhesive. A JBL shop can also do a proper testing following the procedure. Also, you need to be certain nothing has fallen into the gap. Correct tools and experience are worth a few $$.

  10. #40
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    Yes, an incomplete glue bead around the dome will cause a buzzing sound and other sounds as well. A more robust bead of glue doesn't sit well with the purists but it makes the speakers much more reliable. Yes the Part Ex glue will work fine.

    https://www.parts-express.com/Black-...Bottle-340-078


    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    Hi Widget,

    I was finally able to install everything, it sounds quite nice but I noticed a little distortion/vibration in one of the d130s.

    At first I worried that I needed to get the d130 reconed - however upon further inspection I saw that a little glue was missing in a small bottom section of the dust cap.

    Would this be what is causing the distortion in the lower range?
    Name:  5A969DA0-BAA2-4A12-9A0C-E3295C6D2937.jpg
Views: 129
Size:  170.9 KB
    Name:  E72621EF-B02D-40EF-BB68-B1D9DAD56491.jpg
Views: 120
Size:  146.9 KB

    Would it be okay to apply some adhesive such as this to the section missing the adhesive:
    https://www.parts-express.com/Black-...Bottle-340-078

    And also can this glue be applied over the existing adhesive around the aluminum dust cap without ill effect?

    thanks again so much Widget,


  11. #41
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    thanks for that - is there a name for this black glue?
    is it the MI2000 that they sell:
    https://www.simplyspeakers.com/speak...e-mi-2000.html

    Yes its that one i had in mind. Be careful it flows easier than the one in a tube.

    In a non-technical aspect, just think of a future day when you might want to sell the speakers and the buyer just like you notices something is wrong with the glue line if its clear, that raises a red flag! Better to use black as is usually the case and it matches the rest of the glue line.

    Personnaly when i look at a driver i always examine carefully the dustcap glue line since this sometimes reveals a repair or other...

    Richard

  12. #42
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    Riley, thank you for this recommendation - I just ordered it. I think I’m gonna take your advice and try and apply the glue. I figure I’ll try this solution first to see if it helps. And if not I’ll take it to a JBL shop.

    Richard, you made a great point about making sure it looks similar to the factory. I’m not planning on selling it but I do worry the mismatched aesthetic I think would drive me nuts.

    Do you have any recommendations as to how to keep the aluminum clean? I purchased the applicator bottle - but worry it might still put out too much glue. Would something finer like a syringe tip do a better job to apply the glue? Or would it not put out enough glue?


    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Yes, an incomplete glue bead around the dome will cause a buzzing sound and other sounds as well. A more robust bead of glue doesn't sit well with the purists but it makes the speakers much more reliable. Yes the Part Ex glue will work fine.

    https://www.parts-express.com/Black-...Bottle-340-078


    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Yes its that one i had in mind. Be careful it flows easier than the one in a tube.

    In a non-technical aspect, just think of a future day when you might want to sell the speakers and the buyer just like you notices something is wrong with the glue line if its clear, that raises a red flag! Better to use black as is usually the case and it matches the rest of the glue line.

    Personnaly when i look at a driver i always examine carefully the dustcap glue line since this sometimes reveals a repair or other...

    Richard

  13. #43
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    JBL provides adhesive in a metal tube with a narrow snout thus making it easy to apply a relatively thin, consistent bead if the speaker is rotated slowly on a turntable. The glass bottle from Parts Express is the same adhesive but with a brush attached to the lid and thus much easier to get glue out faster for glueing cone surrounds and spiders to frames but harder to get to thin even line around the dome. The glue is VERY thick and viscous so may be difficult to draw into a syringe with too small a nozzle but if you can find one that will draw it's likely to make for a better application. Just use enough to ensure a good bond. Too much is better than too little.

    The solvent used in the adhesive is ( or was, this may have changed ) MEK, very nasty stuff when inhaled. Be sure to have good ventilation.


    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    Riley, thank you for this recommendation - I just ordered it. I think I’m gonna take your advice and try and apply the glue. I figure I’ll try this solution first to see if it helps. And if not I’ll take it to a JBL shop.

    Richard, you made a great point about making sure it looks similar to the factory. I’m not planning on selling it but I do worry the mismatched aesthetic I think would drive me nuts.

    Do you have any recommendations as to how to keep the aluminum clean? I purchased the applicator bottle - but worry it might still put out too much glue. Would something finer like a syringe tip do a better job to apply the glue? Or would it not put out enough glue?

  14. #44
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    I ended up purchasing an additional bottle with the narrow snout that parts express offered - got the one that looked closest to the mi2000 bottle from speaker supply - so maybe I’ll just try using that instead of the syringe.

    thanks also for the great advice on the amount to use and caution regarding smell— I’ll make sure to do this by the window using a lazy susan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    JBL provides adhesive in a metal tube with a narrow snout thus making it easy to apply a relatively thin, consistent bead if the speaker is rotated slowly on a turntable. The glass bottle from Parts Express is the same adhesive but with a brush attached to the lid and thus much easier to get glue out faster for glueing cone surrounds and spiders to frames but harder to get to thin even line around the dome. The glue is VERY thick and viscous so may be difficult to draw into a syringe with too small a nozzle but if you can find one that will draw it's likely to make for a better application. Just use enough to ensure a good bond. Too much is better than too little.

    The solvent used in the adhesive is ( or was, this may have changed ) MEK, very nasty stuff when inhaled. Be sure to have good ventilation.

  15. #45
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    RE how to keep the aluminum clean?

    Not sure i understand your question correctly. Keeping Alu cap clean because its dirty or preventing black glue on the edge of dustcap?

    If its for dirty cap then i assume an Alu cleaner would be what you need, but have none to suggest to you right now.

    If its for avoiding black glue on cap then cover its perimeter with masking tape, such as 3M Blue painter's tape, made for easy removal (slowly), contrary to 3M's cheap Tartan brand which is very sticky.

    RE but worry it might still put out too much glue. but worry it might still put out too much glue.

    I have a number of various size syringes and wouldn't use that here, too much trouble. The applicator from a Simply Speakers black glue plastic bottle should do the job. If you're not comfortable with too much or not enough glue, i suggest you do a short trial run with the glue bottle. Put two small pieces of scrap wood at a right angle and try to fill the joint between them on a short distance to avoid wasting too much (similar to siliconing joints inside a speaker box). This little test should give you an idea about how the glue flows and its actual application for covering the open space on your dustcap.

    With a plastic bottle, if need be you can cut off a little of the nozzle with a knife to make a wider glue line.

    Richard

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