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Thread: JBL d130/375 crossover? help

  1. #61
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    I had read recharging the magnets would help with the sound quality. Is there a list you may have of places that are still around and able to recharge the magnets on the 2405/077 tweeters, d130 and 2441 drivers?
    It is more likely that a woofer will need recharging, but since the 2405 diaphragms are now unobtainium, I wouldn't waste my money charging the magnet unless I knew the current diaphragms were perfect or near perfect. Recharging the alnico magnets will only restore the last bit of performance if they are fundamentally sound. There is a high likelihood that the drivers are not in great shape.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    lastly it even possible to get a 32ohm d130 reconed to something that sounds similar to what it mightíve been?
    I wouldn't obsess over the 32 ohm part since it is unlikely that you really want a 32 ohm woofer these days. They were offered in 32 ohms so that a pair in parallel gave a tube amplifier a 16 ohm load.

    As far as a D130 is concerned... do you even want a wide range high sensitivity mid bass driver? If you do, you will need to get an aftermarket kit these days. The D130 frames and motors were the most widely used design JBL used so there are numerous alternatives that will work in those frames, however the early JBLs have a very tight gap so you need to find a recone kit with an exceptionally round VC... most aftermarket kits rely on the looser tolerances of today.


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  2. #62
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    The gentleman who was at OCS now has his own place and he took the magnet gausser with him. He still does the same great quality work.

    http://www.speakerrepairpros.com/

  3. #63
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    Again with great information - I havent been having great luck with the 2405 and the seller from eBay keeps sending me the wrong ones…but I guess that is par for the course at ebay.
    I have another pair on the way so fingers crossed these will be better. An upside to this ordeal has been Ive now been able to hear several different units of 2405s so Ive been able to see what a better sounding one sounds like.

    As far as the 32ohm, it is actually for a very particular project but Im trying to reproduce an error someone made who used one 32ohm D130 with a 16ohm d175 driver.
    I know it sounds ridiculous but its very much out of curiosity what mismatch or error would have sounded like. Not good Im sure - and not for the purpose for high quality sound, but I am curious.

    For the pair of 16ohm D130 Im using currently I have noticed that when I hook it up to a solid state receiver, the bass seems to get worse. Whereas when I hook them up to a low wattage tube amp, the bass becomes a lot fuller. Is there a reason why?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    It is more likely that a woofer will need recharging, but since the 2405 diaphragms are now unobtainium, I wouldn't waste my money charging the magnet unless I knew the current diaphragms were perfect or near perfect. Recharging the alnico magnets will only restore the last bit of performance if they are fundamentally sound. There is a high likelihood that the drivers are not in great shape.

    I wouldn't obsess over the 32 ohm part since it is unlikely that you really want a 32 ohm woofer these days. They were offered in 32 ohms so that a pair in parallel gave a tube amplifier a 16 ohm load.

    As far as a D130 is concerned... do you even want a wide range high sensitivity mid bass driver? If you do, you will need to get an aftermarket kit these days. The D130 frames and motors were the most widely used design JBL used so there are numerous alternatives that will work in those frames, however the early JBLs have a very tight gap so you need to find a recone kit with an exceptionally round VC... most aftermarket kits rely on the looser tolerances of today.


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    Toddalin, this is such amazing information - thank you for this!! I cant believe how reasonable his pricing is. Will contact him tomorrow about maybe shipping him my d130s to recharge the magnets.

    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    The gentleman who was at OCS now has his own place and he took the magnet gausser with him. He still does the same great quality work.

    http://www.speakerrepairpros.com/

  4. #64
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    I spoke with speaker repair and found out that unless the D130 was a d130-L which was specifically 16ohm chances are that it might not have even been a 32ohm — that JBL by design mislabeled the ohm rating.

    By this theory the 32ohm listed on my D130B may not have originally even been a 32ohm rather a 16 or an 8?

    And so in the 1950s getting sent a d130b/d175 combo directly from JBL who would have been aware of this might not have even been a mistake and sounded just fine?

    this is wild -

    Did JBL mislabel their ohm rating by design to throw off those not in house or in the know?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I wouldn't obsess over the 32 ohm part since it is unlikely that you really want a 32 ohm woofer these days. They were offered in 32 ohms so that a pair in parallel gave a tube amplifier a 16 ohm load.

    As far as a D130 is concerned... do you even want a wide range high sensitivity mid bass driver? If you do, you will need to get an aftermarket kit these days. The D130 frames and motors were the most widely used design JBL used so there are numerous alternatives that will work in those frames, however the early JBLs have a very tight gap so you need to find a recone kit with an exceptionally round VC... most aftermarket kits rely on the looser tolerances of today.


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    Dustcap has been glued back on and most of the buzzing went away however I did see that the positive lead wire from the cone to the frame of the d130 was on the tighter side. The negative lead wire seemed fine with just enough give not to restrict movement.

    Im guessing the hot lead wire may be affecting the movement of the cone and thus the lower frequency — does anyone know of a fix to add a little more lead wire without having to redo the whole thing for the time being?

  6. #66
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    Bend the solder lug on the back of the driver terminal in toward the voice coil if it has room to move. Some do, some don't. Soldering a loop made from some stiff wire ( cut off resistor lead works fine ) onto the solder lug and then soldering the flex lead to the loop will give you some added length too if bending isn't an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    Dustcap has been glued back on and most of the buzzing went away however I did see that the positive lead wire from the cone to the frame of the d130 was on the tighter side. The negative lead wire seemed fine with just enough give not to restrict movement.

    Im guessing the hot lead wire may be affecting the movement of the cone and thus the lower frequency ó does anyone know of a fix to add a little more lead wire without having to redo the whole thing for the time being?

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    Riley! Thank you so much for this!!! I just took the speaker apart for the 100th time and found that the d130 had bendable solder lug. Now it has plenty of give. Honestly the way this project has been going I thought I would have to figure it out using the 2nd option of soldering a loop.

    But I guess I lucked out - thank you again Riley!

    edit: put it all back together and the solder lug bend worked beautifully - all frequencies work and no buzzing!


    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Bend the solder lug on the back of the driver terminal in toward the voice coil if it has room to move. Some do, some don't. Soldering a loop made from some stiff wire ( cut off resistor lead works fine ) onto the solder lug and then soldering the flex lead to the loop will give you some added length too if bending isn't an option.

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    Is there a sonic difference if I raise the 2441 drive and horn? Currently the driver/horn are sitting on top of the cabinet sounds nice.
    But I wonder if the driver made a difference if itís raised up?

  9. #69
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    A picture is worth a thousand words or something like that... show us what you are working with.


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    You want to keep your sound sources as close together as possible to reduce phase issues between them. If you want to raise say the horns to ear level then ideally you would raise the entire speaker system by putting it on a stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfmonster View Post
    Is there a sonic difference if I raise the 2441 drive and horn? Currently the driver/horn are sitting on top of the cabinet sounds nice.
    But I wonder if the driver made a difference if itís raised up?

  11. #71
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Alfmonster,

    Its a balance between two evils in my view. I agree with Riley's close together idea. But on the other hand raising the entire speaker system by putting it on a stand, will create some low frequency diffraction loss (less bass). That's the other evil.

    If a system currently has prominent bass then raising it could provide a more balanced LF sound. However if it has a somewhat weak bass or just enough, then raising the cab will make it sound even more bass light.

    So you need to assess your particular situation in this regard, and decide based on your own LF preference.

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and now Crest Audio too

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Alfmonster,

    Its a balance between two evils in my view. I agree with Riley's close together idea. But on the other hand raising the entire speaker system by putting it on a stand, will create some low frequency diffraction loss (less bass). That's the other evil.

    If a system currently has prominent bass then raising it could provide a more balanced LF sound. However if it has a somewhat weak bass or just enough, then raising the cab will make it sound even more bass light.

    So you need to assess your particular situation in this regard, and decide based on your own LF preference.

    Richard
    Thank you for this - yeah I noticed that when I took the speaker off the ground it seemed to lose a bit of the Lower frequencies. Especially now that the d130 is in a c38 which is more of a placeholder so I can listen to the components. Hopefully Iíll be able to transplant them into a more size appropriate cabinet at some point down the line.

    also Riley brought up a great point regarding the sources being close together due to the phasing. Very helpful to know that.

    Would it be better for the 2441 driver/horn to be more isolated by resting on something like herbies fat dots as opposed to resting directly on the cabinet?

    please note in my picture, I have the 2441 resting on a small piece of cardboard to protect the speaker cabinet. And yes I realize the drive is way to close to the back wall - unfortunately I can properly place these in the apt due to space - so when itís not being used itís store against a wall.
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  13. #73
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Alf,

    RE more isolated by resting on something like herbies fat dots as opposed to resting directly on the cabinet?

    Not sure i understand your question correctly or what you're trying to achieve: e.g. prevent damage to cabinet? Or some resonance/vibration in the horn? Or both or else?

    Cardboard you use will get very thin with CD weight. In absence of support, to protect box finish i'd use a piece of 1/4" or 5/16" plywood, its thin enough not to change things much but rigid at the same time. Plus you can apply a finish of your choice if you wish. Good luck.

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and now Crest Audio too

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Alf,

    RE more isolated by resting on something like herbies fat dots as opposed to resting directly on the cabinet?

    Not sure i understand your question correctly or what you're trying to achieve: e.g. prevent damage to cabinet? Or some resonance/vibration in the horn? Or both or else?

    Cardboard you use will get very thin with CD weight. In absence of support, to protect box finish i'd use a piece of 1/4" or 5/16" plywood, its thin enough not to change things much but rigid at the same time. Plus you can apply a finish of your choice if you wish. Good luck.

    Richard
    hi Richard,

    yes for now the cardboard piece was just to prevent damage to the cabinet. My question is more regarding resonance/vibration to the horn and driver and if that would be recommended in your experience. I’ve seen these horns/drivers on custom built stands to support it - where as I’ve just rested it on my cabinet- and am wondering whether the stand is just an aesthetic thing or if the isolation actually serves a purpose.

    The thin plywood options sounds like a great option. Perhaps I can cut a small piece and put one under the driver and another piece under the horn.

  15. #75
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Alf,

    The way i understand it, with horn/driver directly on top of cab, is that you may have a small natural angle upwards? In some situations might not be bad, if they were firing straight and when you sit on the couch means they're shooting at knee level that's low, then a slight angle upwards would have them directed at your ears which is better.

    Horn/driver stand would provide some isolation if it has a form of dampers, like rubber washers or small pieces of a rubber mat on mounting stand base for example.

    Providing your boxes are well built, i.e. quite rigid, there shouldn't be much LF resonance/vibration transmitted to horn/driver. If you're afraid there might be then consider the damping option under the thin plywood.

    Horn/driver stand is not only aesthetic, it prevents these from moving or falling off the cab, but there's also a matter of sound projection vertical angle: shooting straight (levelled) vs at a little angle. Sometimes a little angle may be intended for horn sound being projected at ear level as mentioned above.

    Gotta go.

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and now Crest Audio too

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