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Thread: JBL 4331 rebuild using 2445J and JBL woofer - would this be a good idea? Help pls!

  1. #1
    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    JBL 4331 rebuild using 2445J and JBL woofer - would this be a good idea? Help pls!

    Dear all,
    I have a pair of beaten up JBL 4503A-1 enclosures...


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    Only five attachments per post so to be continued....

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    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    And I have some nice 2445J 2" CD's on 2385a bi-radial horns...


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    That seem to measure really great...



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  3. #3
    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    I'm confident I can passively EQ the 2445J's and 2385a's to a really sweet 800hz high pass....



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    And the CD & horn will fit inside the cabinet above the woofer....


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  4. #4
    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    Plus I have some 2226's and E130's at a good price locally.....


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    So my question is would I even do this?


    Any and all suggestions, ideas, past experiences, criticisms etc, etc are appreciated!


    Cheers!

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    Just as an exercise in making the best sounding speaker system from your existing set of boxes and drivers? Put the 2226s in which ever pair of boxes is tuned the lowest. Put the E130s in the other pair of boxes. Plug up all unneeded holes for unused horns. Stack with the 2226 on the floor and the 130 box on top of that. Attach the horn driver combo to a board and to prop up the driver for aiming and set it atop the 130 box. Triamp with crossover points at 200 hz and 1khz. Tune to taste with the EQ in the DSP crossover. Oh, and strap the whole stack together if you plan to listen loud.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    Plus I have some 2226's and E130's at a good price locally.....

    So my question is would I even do this?


    Any and all suggestions, ideas, past experiences, criticisms etc, etc are appreciated!


    Cheers!

  6. #6
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Funny you should ask Mazza;

    I bought a pair of these boxes that had been hacked out to use a 2380/2446 and a 2226. They didnít sound half bad.

    I rebuilt the baffle board and loaded them with 2235ís, 2420ís on 2312ís with 2308 lenses and 2405ís. First passive them active.

    They sounded better with the 2380ís, by far.

    I am with Riley on this one.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  7. #7
    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    Hi Barry,
    Thanks heaps for your input. Did you have a build thread for your restoration?
    Thanks!

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    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    Thanks for your thoughts Riley.

    I don't have quite the space to accommodate your suggestion but would be great for a concert outside no doubt!

    Another idea I had was to do the cinema 2673 by rotating my cabs and mounting the 2385's on top???


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    I also found a supplier for the MA-15woofer clamps on eBay...


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  9. #9
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Personnaly, would do two pairs. One better mannered using rebuilt 4331 cab with 2226/2445 (you've already shown the way you would do to extend its vhf response). The other pair using the E130/EV DH1A you have to make noise, and adding similar vhf eq to also extend its response. Then having two pairs for different purposes and making use of the gear you already have = increased flexibility.

    Richard

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    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    Hi RMC,
    Many thanks for your suggestions. I agree - more speakers = more happiness!

    Unfortunately I only have the single EV CD/horn combo. I've long contemplated a killer centre channel with that HF section over a vintage 15" I also have in my stash....




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    Cheers!

  11. #11
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Mazza,

    Yup, speakers = the more the merrier!

    Big Celestion driver you have there, haven't seen this one before.

    I'm not trying to steer you in a direction you don't want to go, however you only need a single EV combo to make another but different pair of boxes with your E130... Looks tempting to me. Other option maybe a subwoofer with the Celestion?

    A killer centre channel has its merits, but on the other hand it involves integration work into a system, e.g. horn coverage pattern/directivity and possible overlapping issues, phase and acoustic centers, etc.

    If you don't mind this extra work then why not. I sure won't blame you for that as i tend to like seeing people who show different things than the routine. Have fun.

    Richard

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    For what it's worth I always felt the DH1a and it's variants sounded better than a 2445.

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    That was my observation after having run about two dozen DeltaMax clone boxes as a B system for about a decade. The four boxes that had 2445s rather than the stock DH1s were clearly rather harsh sounding at high levels. The same sort of high mid harshness I've heard in JBL 2" drivers since starting out with 2440s on 2350 radial horns in the 70s. I think it's been widely noted that the phase plugs on both the 2440/41s and the 2445s were not as well thought out as some other 2" drivers. Sounded great with loud rock and roll where some kinds of distortion were a feature rather than a bug but less so in any other kind of music. JBLs one inch compression drivers were notably better in this regard. DH1s come up on Ebay fairly regularly if you want a match. Just avoid the low budget Chinese replacement EV diaphragms. You can go thru a dozen of those and not find a matching pair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Caldwell View Post
    For what it's worth I always felt the DH1a and it's variants sounded better than a 2445.

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    Member Mazza's Avatar
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    G'day Riley
    Thanks for your thoughts in the 2445.

    A few questions:
    I wonder when you say high levels are we talking in a home environment or sound reinforcement context? I'll be using these for home audio.

    What horn were you using and what is a DeltaMax clone box please?

    Cheers.

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    As you suspect Mazza the DeltaMax speakers I described were a 'PA' speaker, your basic 15" woofer in a vented box with a 2" throat compression driver for high end. It was widely recognized as a sort of best of class design but in a world where weight counts for as much as sound quality it didn't quite achieve market dominance ( it was absurdly heavy for its size). While the EV DH1 had a very slightly longer 'nose' or throat length from the diaphragm to the throat end it's improvement in sound quality was apparent pretty much without regard to the horn it was used on and conversely the 2440/41/45 drivers tended to exhibit their 3-6khz ( that's where I hear it most prominently, others may have a different sense of it ). I've been using the JBL 2" drivers since the 1970s starting with 2440s on the old 2350/2355 metal radial horns and venetian blind lenses right up thru 2441s on DDS horns on KF850s and assorted stage monitors and eventually 2445s on JBL 2380/85 horns. They all exhibited a similar distortion or in hifi terminology a 'confused sound' in the upper mid that the DH1s and TADs didn't have. Moving the crossover frequency up to the 1600 hz range would allow operation at slightly higher levels before the effect was apparent but it never went away entirely.

    Can you hear this at living room hifi levels? Yes/No/Maybe. I'd imagine that depends largely on what levels you listen at and the kinds of music you listen to. TLDR version - If you already have a DH1 and don't have any 2445s as yet you may be happier finding another DH1 for a custom speaker build than going for 2445s.

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