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Thread: 2234 recone kit in E 145 baskets

  1. #1
    Member MoD's Avatar
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    2234 recone kit in E 145 baskets

    Hi, I could negotiate a pair of E145 drivers. Condition is still unknown. If they are in need for recone, could they be reconed with 2234 recone kit? I would then measure new T/S parameters and build suitable enclosures.
    Thanks...
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    To make the kits fit you would have to take off the extension rings on the frames. Then you have the issue with if the VC will be centered. The gap height is much bigger the E-145 has an underhung coil. Just get a pair of frames that match the 2234. There are plenty of them. If you look at the "JBL What goes Into" it's a flat out no.

    Rob
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    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Yup, what he said :-D
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

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    Member MoD's Avatar
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    I think if recone kit is not one of drop in ones but comes in peaces voice coil could be centered.

    Drivers that I ask about are already missing extension rings and were reconed with good knows what. I will offer small amount of money for them and let him be... If he will not be able to sell them, maybe he will turn to me...

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    do not surrender never, except when you have to

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    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    I don't know what it has been reconed with, but that surround is like nothing I saw in JBL so far AFAICR. Very weird.

    I would be curious to have a measurement of the top plate thickness of the E-145... can't seem to find that data anywhere.
    You think you could measure that and share it with us?
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaulive View Post
    I don't know what it has been reconed with, but that surround is like nothing I saw in JBL so far AFAICR. Very weird.

    I would be curious to have a measurement of the top plate thickness of the E-145... can't seem to find that data anywhere.
    You think you could measure that and share it with us?
    Quote Originally Posted by GregTimbers
    The The E-145 has the same magnet assembly and voice coil as the LE-15. The gap is 0.600" long and the coil is .280 long. We didn't pay much attention to x-max back then and there wasn't a standardized method of stating it. Usually transducer would mechanically bottom out (spider to top plate) before a realistic excursion had been reached. This was due to our having to reuse old frames rather than tool new ones. The frames were designed in the 30 watt tube days and were sufficient for the times. As amp power went through the roof, the frames didn't keep up. It was mid 80's or so when the frames got the necessary travel capability.

    Back to the E-145. The fringe flux on that motor allowed the coil to come out of the gap by maybe 20% of its 0.280 length which is 1 mm plus a little. Including the coil gap numbers I get about 5.5mm peak. 7 mm is way high (or low if it was p-p). That particular surround was very stiff and was limiting by the time the coil tries to get out of the gap.

    it was designed for bass guitar use, quite often in an open back enclosure. This is why it is stiff and able to protect itself. As I recall, it was quite efficient, running in the mid to high 90's for a 2.83 v input.


    That quote from GT resides within JBL E145 Excursion Capabilities



    To round out todays' info dump, there's a bunch of good info on the K145 + E145 found within Niklas's thread called The Purpose of the E145 ??


  7. #7
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Thanks Earl K. I read the thread "the purpose of E145" this morning before posting and I don't think I saw that info, I must confess that I read it in diagonal
    So a gap of 15.2mm and for the 2234 a coil length of 19.1mm, that does not give you too much excursion available _assuming_ the coil is centered, which is most certainly not.
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I believe an E145 without the extension ring is going to be closest to an LE15H. You might want to go that route.


    Widget

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    Member MoD's Avatar
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    On this Thread:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...JBL-E145/page7

    Member MikeM say that he had 145 reconed with 2235 recone kit. So it looks it could be done. But...

    Centering of voice coil in the gap is important. 2234 has 3,9 mm higher wound coil than the top plate thickness on 145. That means that driver would not be "underhung" but coil should be out of gap on each side 1,95 mm. Question is; does voice coil former has enough height to be insert deep enough to clear voice coil 1,95mm on bottom side of the plate. And, there is question of proper alignment of spider because soil is 1,95 mm out of plate on upper side too.

    EDIT: @ Widget; Yes, that would be reasonable, but in this hot summer days filosophy is "in", work is "out" :-)
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    The last batch of 2234/2235 kits I got in 2019 had the top of the formers up just enough to touch the dust cap.

    Naturally you find these things after the kits are all installed so trimming would be much harder. I took a different option.

    That said I imagine that there is likely enough former height to move the coil down in the cone and spider in an unassembled kit if you wanted to try that.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Member MoD's Avatar
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    Thanx for answers so far, i find them very valuable.

    It looks those speakers will be mine. So, a little digression to the topic; can original e 145 recone kit be installed in e 145 frames with missing extension rings?

    I am still very motivated to try to install 2234 kits in those frames, or at least le 15 kits with 2234 coil. Or le 15 recone kits Dough, it would be good to know all options before purchasing recone kits.
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoD View Post
    ...can original e 145 recone kit be installed in e 145 frames with missing extension rings?...
    No they cannot.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Member MoD's Avatar
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    Yes, logical. Thnx.

    Smart move would be to start looking foe LE15 recone kits.

    I am not that smart. So I went searching and looking, google, this site (that search just wont work, or it is working on intelligence...) after a quite a lot i started thinking like this. E 145 magnet structure is (not so advanced design, but...) similar to 2227/ME150H. E145 plate thickness 15,2mm, 2227/ME150 13mm, so I was thinking; LE 15 surround and cone, 2234 spider and voice coil. It would be cool (to me ) to try that combination, take t/s measurements, and take a listen...

    I wonder if there is difference in LE15a and 2234 cones, they look same to me, but I do not have experience, all I do is taking screwd speakers (except those 2227) and install aftermarket cones...
    do not surrender never, except when you have to

  14. #14
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    There is a difference if only the paper. The JBL 2234/35 cones are made by Hitachi and the paper is very stiff/hard by specific design. Somewhere I have the text of a conversation with George Augspurger about the creation of the 2235.

    I don’t know if the cone geometry is the same.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    There's no doubt the E145 motors are worth owning. Personally I'd install an under-hung cone kit ( short-coil ) into those motors.

    That said, because of the extra deep ( .6" ) gap depth > when a long coil ( really anything more than .28" ) is installed into that large a magnetic force > then the mid-range response will rise dramatically.

    Take a look at the 2020h as an example of what to expect ( remember it's only .5" deep and it's also a smaller 3" diameter coil ).

    The net result of such an experiment ( 2234 coil in the E145 ) will be the need to lather up the cone ( weigh-it-down ) with a thick coating of aquaplas substitute ( to level out the dramatic midrange rise > as was done with the ME150H ).


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