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Thread: JBL 4355 clone with different woofers

  1. #46
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    RE I must necessarily find a pair of 2202 since both the 2204 and the 2206 have a difference of -4 db.

    Really?? A prior suggestion was that you bi-amp between woofer and low mid. In such case the drivers sensitivity difference becomes "obsolete".

    Moreover, why limit yourself to JBL when people who know keep telling you its a long shot to get good 2202 at reasonable cost. There's plenty of other good brands in Europe (many in Italy) and elsewhere, you can probably find an equivalent driver to 2202 and be done with this (B&C, RCF, 18 Sound, Faital Pro, Fane, Beyma, etc.)

    RE I know it is difficult to find these components and the spare parts are not JBL

    Considering aftermarket recones on beaten units? Then you can't really say that a 2202 reconed in such way is a good one. Nobody here, or close to, can certify that such aftermarket kit is true to the original or quality made. Then actual performance is a roll of the dice... To know, drivers would need to be assessed with programs such as Woofer Tester, Dats, etc.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    RE I must necessarily find a pair of 2202 since both the 2204 and the 2206 have a difference of -4 db.

    Really?? A prior suggestion was that you bi-amp between woofer and low mid. In such case the drivers sensitivity difference becomes "obsolete".

    Moreover, why limit yourself to JBL when people who know keep telling you its a long shot to get good 2202 at reasonable cost. There's plenty of other good brands in Europe (many in Italy) and elsewhere, you can probably find an equivalent driver to 2202 and be done with this (B&C, RCF, 18 Sound, Faital Pro, Fane, Beyma, etc.)

    RE I know it is difficult to find these components and the spare parts are not JBL

    Considering aftermarket recones on beaten units? Then you can't really say that a 2202 reconed in such way is a good one. Nobody here, or close to, can certify that such aftermarket kit is true to the original or quality made. Then actual performance is a roll of the dice... To know, drivers would need to be assessed with programs such as Woofer Tester, Dats, etc.
    I am Italian, but only JBL components in my home, this is my favorite brand. I love Italy in other ways and for other things. And then I don't want to mix components from different brands: whoever gets me the JBL components is a really serious person and if a speaker is not good, they rule it out.
    Anyway thanks for the advice, it's always nice to hear the opinions of competent people.
    Giuseppe

  3. #48
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    I gotta admit that I have a 2202H that I reconed in 1984 and that has sat in a box in my shop ever since. I have yet to find a match for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    OK that's good you have a fall back driver. Best of luck on the 2202's unfortunately they are few and far between.

    Rob

    ....

  4. #49
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    FWIW, I have built something based on the 4345 using 2202h and different combination of woofers and HF drivers and horns, but after a bit of tweaking they sound very good and I love them.
    I used a 2044H instead of the 2245 and all it needed was a 4dB help in the bottom of the range, around 35Hz and down to be as flat as the 2245 in that enclosure.
    Check them out:http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...finement-blues

    Of course, if you're looking for exact replica and resale value, then it's another game, my goal is the enjoyment of music
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

  5. #50
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    First of all, thank you for your contribution. I still have some aspects that are obscure and I would like to clarify them.
    1) As you will have understood, I intend to reproduce the same volume of the 4355 cabinet while using the 2226, but in two rooms separated by a table that will also act as a reinforcement. I will use a 14 cm diameter plastic tube for the reflex port, but how long will it be?
    2) Externally, the mobile profile is not at 90 °, but by how much?
    3) Finally, the grids: how should I fix them to the piece of furniture? I found this on Ebay, but I don't understand how it works.
    https://www.ebay.it/itm/133032937758...Cclp%3A2047675
    How far are the grids from the furniture profile? Thanks again
    Giuseppe

  6. #51
    Senior Member Dieter's Avatar
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    3) Neodymium magnets are perhaps an alternative.
    ROON Rock; Accuphase E-460; MUSETEC AUDIO (L.K.S. Audio) MH-DA005 - USB; Everest DD66000

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    First of all, thank you for your contribution. I still have some aspects that are obscure and I would like to clarify them.
    1) As you will have understood, I intend to reproduce the same volume of the 4355 cabinet while using the 2226, but in two rooms separated by a table that will also act as a reinforcement.
    I will use a 14 cm diameter plastic tube for the reflex port, but how long will it be?
    Giuseppe

    Giuseppe,

    One ( ie; you ) needs to retune each compartment of the 4355 ( which traditionally houses a 2235H ) to get the best performance from your current choice of woofer ( 2226H ).

    The normal stock tuning of the 4355 is too low for the 2226h to work with.
    - Also ( for mechanical safety reasons ) one doesn't want to operate a woofer within any enclosure that's tuned lower than the woofers Fs ( which is 40 hz for the 2226h ).

    Therefore you need to tune each compartment ( holding a 2226H ) to around 40hz.
    - That means when using a 140mm ( inside dimension ) duct/port, the length needs to be @ 101mm deep ( assuming each woofer compartment is 5cu' or 141.6 litres ) .

    Changing components ( and getting off the well trodden path ) means these sort of changes are something that you ( or someone helping you ) should be figuring out ( maybe before taking on a project of this scale ).


  8. #53
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Had planned to reply. Saw Earl beats me to finish line and that's fine, saves me some work. Plus mostly agree with his comments anyway.

    The only observation i have with the vent is that the area chosen by user is below the min. recommended by Winspeakerz, this by a notable margin of 10.5 or so sq. in. (34.2 min. recom. - 23.86 sq. in. from user tube).

    The 14 cm (5.5") vent meets JBL's old rule of thumb of one third driver diameter, however since it was enacted years ago it may not be enough anymore for more modern high power drivers.

    At high drive levels that port might experience some difficulties. The cab won't turn into a pumpkin for this, simply important to know and drive accordingly... 2235 Pe 150W; 2226 Pe 600W. The software takes that into account.

    Btw if the OP can high-pass filter his woofers at say 35 hz with steep slope he might be able to improve somewhat his power and excursion situation shown on the graph.

    Pic shows, like in post #13, 2226 in 5 cu.ft. box tuned to 40 hz, 300W, but this time with the vent details based on user tube dia. (i get same length as Earl), but vent area is the concern in case he's ambitious power wise.

    Name:  IMG_2575.jpg
Views: 428
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Had planned to reply. Saw Earl beats me to finish line and that's fine, saves me some work. Plus mostly agree with is comments anyway.

    The only observation i have with the vent is that the area chosen by user is below the min. recommended by Winspeakerz, this by a notable margin of 10.5 or so sq. in. (34.2 min. recom. - 23.86 sq. in. from user tube).

    The 14 cm (5.5") vent meets JBL's old rule of thumb of one third driver diameter, however since it was enacted years ago it may not be enough anymore for more modern high power drivers.

    At high drive levels that port might experience some difficulties. The cab won't turn into a pumpkin for this, simply important to know and drive accordingly... 2235 Pe 150W; 2226 Pe 600W. The software takes that into account.

    Btw if the OP can high-pass filter his woofers at say 35 hz with steep slope he might be able to improve somewhat his power and excursion situation shown on the graph.

    Pic shows, like in post #13, 2226 in 5 cu.ft. box tuned to 40 hz, 300W, but this time with the vent details based on user tube dia. (i get same length as Earl), but vent area is the concern in case he's ambitious power wise.

    Name:  IMG_2575.jpg
Views: 428
Size:  96.9 KB
    Thank you vert much
    Giuseppe

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    Giuseppe,

    One ( ie; you ) needs to retune each compartment of the 4355 ( which traditionally houses a 2235H ) to get the best performance from your current choice of woofer ( 2226H ).

    The normal stock tuning of the 4355 is too low for the 2226h to work with.
    - Also ( for mechanical safety reasons ) one doesn't want to operate a woofer within any enclosure that's tuned lower than the woofers Fs ( which is 40 hz for the 2226h ).

    Therefore you need to tune each compartment ( holding a 2226H ) to around 40hz.
    - That means when using a 140mm ( inside dimension ) duct/port, the length needs to be @ 101mm deep ( assuming each woofer compartment is 5cu' or 141.6 litres ) .

    Changing components ( and getting off the well trodden path ) means these sort of changes are something that you ( or someone helping you ) should be figuring out ( maybe before taking on a project of this scale ).

    Thank you vert much
    Giuseppe

  11. #56
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    Now I will build a prototype, but for the final piece of furniture I still have to know some details about the grids and in general about what concerns the outside.
    Giuseppe

  12. #57
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    Large JBL studio monitors were generally used without the grilles when installed in control rooms as they compromised ever so slightly the performance of the speaker system. That said if you do want to run with grilles on cabinets that large I'd suggest simply screwing them on particularly if you end up using the horn lenses on the HF horns as that added depth will increase the weight of the grille frames substantially. The grille frames should be open around the perimeter to reduce reflections again particularly important if they are made deep enough to accommodate the lenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by audiophile.1963 View Post
    Now I will build a prototype, but for the final piece of furniture I still have to know some details about the grids and in general about what concerns the outside.
    Giuseppe

  13. #58
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    As a Review :

    4355 Enclosure Plans

    Found in this section ( click the pic );

    Name:  LHF_4355 Plans.png
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  14. #59
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    RE I must necessarily find a pair of 2202 since both the 2204 and the 2206 have a difference of -4 db.

    Really?? A prior suggestion was that you bi-amp between woofer and low mid. In such case the drivers sensitivity difference becomes "obsolete".

    Moreover, why limit yourself to JBL when people who know keep telling you its a long shot to get good 2202 at reasonable cost. There's plenty of other good brands in Europe (many in Italy) and elsewhere, you can probably find an equivalent driver to 2202 and be done with this (B&C, RCF, 18 Sound, Faital Pro, Fane, Beyma, etc.)

    RE I know it is difficult to find these components and the spare parts are not JBL

    Considering aftermarket recones on beaten units? Then you can't really say that a 2202 reconed in such way is a good one. Nobody here, or close to, can certify that such aftermarket kit is true to the original or quality made. Then actual performance is a roll of the dice... To know, drivers would need to be assessed with programs such as Woofer Tester, Dats, etc.
    Hi RMC,

    Very interesting observation :
    .....There's plenty of other good brands in Europe (many in Italy) and elsewhere, you can probably find an equivalent driver to 2202 and be done with this (B&C, RCF, 18 Sound, Faital Pro, Fane, Beyma, etc.)....
    un-fortunatelly I have no idea that any of the mentioned driver can compare to the JBL 2202 especially its high sensitivity and very flat response over wide frequency region. Some of the members here have said that JBL 2123 has very similar sound character behaviour as 2202 but I would expect efficiency difference.

    Regards
    ivica

  15. #60
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Ivica,

    Hope you're doing well.

    I'm pretty sure someone here mentioned a B&C model as a replacement for 2202. I can't remember who it was maybe Riley or Eaulive?? With so many brands and models on the market, specially from Europe, I'm 90% confident that if i really searched for one i'd probably find an acceptable 2202 replacement for this project.

    As an example, recently viewing the Beyma web site i couldn't believe the number of 15" and 18" they made, and about 15 models of 12"! And this is just Beyma. It doesn't have to be a perfect carbon copy, simply a close one.

    There has to be an equivalent or so somewhere, i'd be very surprised at not finding anything comparable. Regards,

    Richard

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